Asta 2

BSG, Doctor Who, Due South, and Various Other TV Mentions

Apparently, it’s been a week since I last posted. Huh. It doesn’t seem that long. I’m on the last day of my five day mini vacation. WAH! I wish I had relaxed more. It’s hard for me to do nothing when I know there are things I could be doing. That’s part of the problem with just staying home. You’re surrounded by your stuff. You can see the projects waiting for your attention. Or the laundry in need of washing. On the Brightside, the magazine pile of doom has gotten much lower. The DVDs and CDs are now organized so I can find them easily. And the DVR is relatively cleaned up.

I didn’t do any marathon DVD viewing as planned, but I’m now well into Season 2 of Due South. Is it just my imagination or did the show try to become more serious in Season 2? And three eps in a row exploring Ray V’s love life when he couldn’t get a date in Season 1 seemed odd. I also feel that if it was going to happen it would have by now, so, for the record, I am not seeing the slash. It’s like Jack and Daniel on Stargate for me. There are moments where I can understand how others may see it or wish to create the scenario, but it’s just not happening for me. And just like Jack/Daniel, I love the Fraser/Ray V friendship. It’s awesome that these two friendless people - because who else could put up with them? - found each other and support each other no matter what. But I don’t want to envision them having sex together and there is enough evidence on screen that the thought would send them running in opposite directions from each other too.

All of which makes me want to sit down and think about why I see the slash when I do see it. I never even understood people being enamored with the idea until I watched the Hornblower films. Sure, Jamie and Ioan are very pretty, have a nice chemistry, and there were really no women to come between them, but is that it? I’ve read and written Lee/Helo and there are most certainly women to come between them and I support (most ;) of those ships. And now there is my little Oz obsession (which I need to write about at some point). On that series I don’t even have to use my imagination it’s there, a lot. Perhaps it comes down to the actors, the characters, and a need that those characters satisfy in each other (and I’m not just talking sex) that I, personally, find missing on DS.

I watched the Doctor Who premiere on SciFi Friday night even though, like many of you, I saw the episodes some months ago. danceswithwords had not yet seen ‘The Runaway Bride’ and it was interesting to get her take on it after viewing all of Season 3 and knowing that Donna would be the Doctor’s new companion.

Here are my thoughts from when I first watched ‘The Runaway Bride’ back in December. Reading them again I think it’s still a fair assessment of the episode. However, I found myself liking Donna more this time around. She really isn’t impressed with the Doctor at all. He comes into her life and, from her perspective at the time, ruins it, which makes her none to happy. He asks her to come with him after nearly getting her killed and she doesn’t think twice about saying no. She saw his dark side and it frightened her. And she realizes that there is a lot on her own planet that she has yet to explore.

When the Doctor comes back and she joins him, I expect Donna to be different. Definitely less shrill, but hopefully worldlier, ready to see what else is out there and willing to put up with his crap because the journey will benefit her in some way. Not to mention, after twelve episodes of watching Martha practically falling all over herself to get the Doctor to notice her and love her because she’s under some bizarre assumption he’d make a good boyfriend, to have Donna not care if he gives her a second glance will be refreshing.

I didn’t watch much of Live Earth, but I did manage to catch The Police and let me once again reiterate that Sting must have made a deal with Satan at some point.

Did I mention one of my coworkers had tickets to see The Police in Chicago last week? Yeah, hate her.

Considering the track records of networks swearing they’ll burn off the remaining episodes of a canceled series and then either change the schedule before they air (FOX, I’m looking at you with Drive) or air one episode then pull the series again, I’m not holding my breath on ABC’s decision to air the rest of ‘The Nine’. I suppose the one thing it has going for it is Tim Daly. Since he will be appearing on Peak Practice, perhaps the network wants to get his face on our screens before the new season starts.

wisteria_ finally ;) reposted a little ficlet she had written in comments inspired by exchanges we had in regards to one of Jamie’s more dubious (infamous?) fashion choices. It’s very cute (and God I wish it was the reason!) and very G rated because you all know I don’t do RPF. The Green Flip-Flops of Doom.

The fic writing has gotten off to a slooooooow start. You apparently can get out of practice. I need to find time to write every day. What helped was rewatching (most of ) the final three eps of Season 3. ‘The Son Also Rises’ didn’t hold up quite as well for me (though I could watch the Sam/Lee scenes on a loop), but I enjoyed ‘Crossroads Pt 1 & 2' even more (I could watch that Lee/Laura scene on a loop). And there were a couple things that escaped me the first time around. What, unfortunately, couldn’t escape me is the person William Adama has become or perhaps always was, they just disguised it better.



First the observations....

Lee resigns his commission, then heads to place Kara’s picture on the memorial wall. He lets go of his military career, his relationship with his father, to an extent, and Kara all within a very short period of time. For the first time in two years, perhaps in his entire life, there is a real effort on his part to free himself from the past and the various long cast shadows he often fines himself in.

Right before Romo cross exams Tigh, Adama sees Lee talking to Romo. While there is still no way Lee could have known about the way in which Ellen Tigh died, I see now why Adama believed it to be Lee who informed Romo of the truth.

I love the fact that Lee never would have questioned Laura himself if not for Adama’s ill-informed words to Lee – “I’m calling you a liar and a coward who doesn’t have the guts to go after a man himself.”

beccatoria and I have been having some e-mail conversations about BSG and we came around to the topic of Adama and his characterization as of late. She and I are very much of a like mind when it comes to him (as well as many other things ;), but the rewatch of these final three episodes really go my blood boiling again. While it’s mostly because of his treatment of Lee, that’s not all there is to it.

If Lee Adama is a “serial contrarian” (oh, how I love that description) then William Adama is a serial contradictorian (yeah, I know it’s not a word). As Adama is chewing Lee out after the near raptor explosion (no, Bill, don’t hug him and tell him you’re glad he’s Ok, tell him he’s a complete failure to you!), whatever is coming out of his mouth is contradicting what just came out of his mouth. He gave Lee an order to do a job, which Lee points out he was doing, and, from what I know of security, guards follow around the people they are assigned to protect. “The bastard yanks your chain and you jump.” Again, Lee is doing his job, but, also, isn’t that Adama has been attempting to do to Lee for the past two years, get him to bend to his will? Eventually, Adama throws out that he gave Lee “explicit orders” referring to his flight status. The “explicit orders” don’t seem very explicit. Wasn't he grounded as a pilot, not a passenger? Adama believed Lee, in his distracted state, could be a danger to himself and others, but how is he going to kill himself sitting in a ship? And how is Lee to know that the explicit orders to not fly override the explicit orders to guard Lampkin?

“You’re a soldier. Live like one, act like one.” And who should he use as an example of this because it’s certainly not you Bill. You are completely acting on emotion here. Your using your judgment as a father (a piss poor one at that) and not as the commander of the fleet. At least Lee is trying to keep his feelings in check, you're failing miserably.

The thing is I *might* be able to accept this behavior from Adama if there was the teeniest tiniest indication that he was aware of his contradictory behavior and that he was allowing emotion to interfere with job and relationships with those around him. No such luck.

Besides Lee, it’s his relationship with Tigh that I find extremely troublesome. I’ve actually felt a lot of sympathy for Tigh this season. I haven’t agreed with all his choices, but I have an understanding of where he is coming from and, more significantly, that he’s not always sure he’s doing the right thing, just the best he can do in the given situation. He’s done horrific things and when it becomes too much for him to bear he retreats into a bottle which only increases his self-loathing. He’s caught in an ugly, decades’ long cycle of abuse and one I think he could break if his friend Adama would force him to.

Adama is one of the worst enabler’s I have ever seen. In ‘Crossroads’ he tells Tigh, in all sincerity, “You never embarrass me.” WHAT?! Even Tigh, sober, would know that not to be true. Adama has entrusted, should anything should happen to him, the security of the fleet to an insecure, self-doubting, drunk. We all know how well that went the last time Adama was sidelined. Yet that isn’t embarrassing. Or the random fights Tigh can get into with the rest of the crew. Or getting confused on the witness stand and ending up assisting the defense. No, that’s all acceptable. But Lee is a little distracted, inadvertently says Starbuck in a pilot briefing, and he's stripped of duty, turned into a baby sitter, and reminded constantly of what a disappointment he is. You know, the same guy who came back with the Pegasus and saved Adama's sorry ass.

At this point, I’m not sure what Ron Moore could come up with to save William Adama as a human being in my eyes, mostly because I think he fails to see him as myself and others do.

Oh, I did have one fairly major accomplishment over this break. I made a banner for jamiebambernews! Considering my limited software, lack of graphics know how (I *finally* figured out layers), and coding panic, the fact that I managed what I did makes me very happy.
  • Current Mood: hot hot
I love that banner, and the design of the comm in general. It's lovely and classy.
Is it just my imagination or did the show try to become more serious in Season 2?

Yeah, I think so. "Victoria's Secret" kind of marks a shift in tone (though there are episodes that prefigure that, like "Hawk and Handsaw" and Fraser's speech about Victoria in "You Must Remember This"), and I think the effects of that, for both Fraser and Vecchio, reverberate through quite a bit of S2. To me, that sort of culminates with "Juliet Is Bleeding" (which, maybe not coincidentally, is the last episode that Paul Haggis was involved with, I'm pretty sure). And I think Vecchio comes into his own as less of a sidekick and more of an equal, so the focus does shift more to him as compared to S1. But there's still a lot of wacky fun, too. Personally, I love S2. And S1. And S4. And parts of S3. Hee.

All of which makes me want to sit down and think about why I see the slash when I do see it.

Yeah. The thing I'm coming to realize is that it's really, really hard to justify your subtext as opposed to other people's subtext. Hee. I think with slash, you either see it or you don't (within a given relationship), and trying to articulate why is pretty difficult. For me, anyway. It's sort of a vibe thing, if that makes sense. Of course, I don't self-identify as a slasher--I take these things on a relationship-by-relationship basis--so maybe people who are more involved in slash as a genre would feel differently.

there is enough evidence on screen that the thought would send them running in opposite directions from each other too

Ouch. My mileage varies on that one, obviously.

Anyway. Your new banner is very pretty! And I'm glad you got some vacation time. :)
And I think Vecchio comes into his own as less of a sidekick and more of an equal

Fraser still seems to be the focus of the show, but he doesn't seem to be the center or instigator of every story now. 'Juliet is Bleeding' is a good example of a Ray-centric episode. Which, while nice to see, I wish there had been more build up to Irene being the love of his life and then, bam, she's dead. And it was right after Louie was killed. Guy can't catch a break.

Btw, Carrie Anne Moss, Maria Bello, Amanda Tapping - it's a like a who's who of future stars!

The thing I'm coming to realize is that it's really, really hard to justify your subtext as opposed to other people's subtext.

Can one quantify subtext? And even if I can figure out why I slash who I do, my reasoning won't apply to everyone. I do think it has to do, in part, with both individuals being emotionally damaged and lonely and only having that other person to turn to. Which, yes, could apply to Fraser and Ray on some levels, but we've also discussed that considering their fathers they're pretty healthy. ;)

Of course, I don't self-identify as a slasher--I take these things on a relationship-by-relationship basis--so maybe people who are more involved in slash as a genre would feel differently.

Yeah, I've wondered if slashers seek out that type of relationship or they just stumble upon it as you are I would. And if they look for it what are they looking for?

Ouch. My mileage varies on that one, obviously.

Hee. Well, I don't believe they're homophobic ;), just that the idea has never crossed their minds. Heck, Fraser has trouble getting ideas about women most of the time.

And thanks again. :)
I wish there had been more build up to Irene being the love of his life

Yeah. That's one of the things about dS being fairly self-contained from episode to episode; sometimes these storylines develop very quickly. Although JiB is as much about Vecchio and Frank Zuko (not like that, but) as it is about Irene, I think, so that helps, because we as viewers do have history with Zuko. And Carrie-Ann Moss and David Marciano had excellent chemistry, so I was totally sold on that aspect of things. Sniffle. Man, that episode hurts.

And even if I can figure out why I slash who I do, my reasoning won't apply to everyone.

Right. It's a very individual thing, I think. I mean, a big part of what draws me to Vecchio and Fraser as a pairing is that they are so functional together; I think their strengths and weaknesses mesh extremely well, and they balance together, and each of them provides something the other one really needs (Vecchio gives Fraser support and a solid foundation, and Fraser gives Vecchio hope and inspiration). But what pushes me over the edge from "they're best friends" to "OMG they're totally doing it"... that's harder to quantify. :)

And I made a lot of dumb assumptions about slash and slashers before getting invested in a few slash pairings, myself, so I'm reluctant to go down that road again, but. I will say that it seems to me that slashers have a very keen eye for subtext, whereas I am still apt to look to the text first.
I will say that it seems to me that slashers have a very keen eye for subtext, whereas I am still apt to look to the text first.

That's a good point. If I look back at all the shows I've been invested in, my shipping tends to be the canonical couple on the show - Mulder/Scully, John/Aeryn, Spike/Buffy, for example. The fact that I don't ship Lee and Kara is actually somewhat surprising to me. I tend just to accept what is there on the screen and whatever couple the show has chosen to make THE couple. Of course, if one of the actors is horrible or there is zero chemistry, no matter how hard a show may try to sell it, I won't buy it. But those problems don't apply to Katee or Jamie.

So in the past few years not only have I gone from not buying into the prominent pairing, but to seeing subtext where, perhaps, nothing was intended (Hornblower). All of which makes me wonder if some switch got flipped in my brain or if you all corrupted me. ;)
I'm with you on Fraser/RayV, skipping the other stuff :-), and asking a question: I think you mentioned Oz before, and by now it's probably too late since you're mentioning DVDs, but are you by any chance interested in a season 1 DVD set? I've had it sitting here forever, I never watched the whole of it, and it's a pain in the ass to sell in Germany.
So do you think I'll feel any differently about Fraser and Ray 2.0? You know how I love to be contrary when it comes to shipping. ;)

You're still behind on BSG?!?! If I had a passport missy...

I'm not sure if I'm more surprised you gave Oz a try or that you couldn't make it through eight episodes. ;p However, I didn't get into until the second season when Beecher went crazy and became involved with Keller and they have such a beautifully f***ed up relationship. Then the show started going off the rails in Season 5. Anyway! I've been recording the eps off HBO and burning them to disc because I'm too cheap to buy all the seasons and wasn't dying to see the extras. But, if you have a set lying around, we can talk. ;)
The banner is beautiful, I love the colors - they suit Jamie very well :)

As for the character of Bill Adama, I feel sorry for Edward James Olmos, he must be getting whiplash from all the changes his charcater goes through from line to line. It's the most disappointing part of the show for me, this inconsistency. I just begin to figure him out, then he says something so completely contradictory that I want to bang my head on the TV screen. I hope it gets better next year.

As for the subject of slash, it wasn't something I consciously ever looked for, and the first discussion in depth I read about it was regarding the Hornblower movies (I think I mentioned this to you once, didn't I?). The majority of the message board completely rejected the views of a admitted gay man, who, along with his friends, could see the subtext all over. The poor guy was really nice and wasn't trying to create controversy, he just wanted to voice his opinion. One poster very astutely pointed out that since they had regulations against such behavior, that it obviously happened. And, in the movies, it was more than gently hinted at that Simpson abused Archie in that way and frightened him into secrecy. I think that discussion made me more observant than I had been, and I could eventually see why people would feel that way about Horatio and Archie. But I could not abide the opinion of one person who felt that there was a Pellew/Horatio vibe!
Thanks. :)

As much as EJO voices his opinion on set, to the extent that he'll sometimes forget there is a director and tell the other actors what to do, you would think he'd tell Ron that he's making Adama look very, very bad. Unless Eddie isn't seeing it either.

Yes, you shared with me your trial by fire. ;) I can see traditionalists choosing to see Archie and Horatio's relationship as nothing more than professional or, at most, a close friendship. Even the actors seem to have different takes on what happened to their characters (Jamie maintains he didn't intend to play Archie as if he was sexually abused and Ioan has said that Horatio loved Archie). God knows I wasn't looking for subtext, but I just couldn't ignore Horatio's invasion of Archie's personal space! And the inappropriate touching! And the looks! I just don't know how anyone could have ganged up on that poor guy and told him he was wrong. They were probably just jealous that his imagination was better than their's. ;)
Ohhh, I don't need much encouragement to get growly about Adama in Season 3. You may remember I was pretty livid about him at the end of the season myself and your words here have brought it all back up in my mind. He makes me so mad!

Adama is a serial contradictorian
That's it! That's so true. It's what drives me crazy because he never (to my memory) acknowledges his contradictary actions--let alone addresses the damage they do.

who should he use as an example of this because it’s certainly not you Bill.
Right! Exactly! Lee was far more the model soldier--even just in that one scene--than Adama.

Besides Lee, it’s his relationship with Tigh that I find extremely troublesome.
*nods* Yes, I'm completely with you! And when the two collided, it's little wonder I flipped out as much as I did--how, HOW could he put Tigh before his son?! HOW?!

one I think he could break if his friend Adama would force him to
Yeah, I think that's true. Adama was ridiculously easy on Tigh, imo, and Tigh's testimony on the stand was evidence of what a mind-bogglingly stupid idea it was to try and just sweep those 'bygones' under the carpet. Tigh was a ticking timebomb, his issues unresolved. Adama mishandled him terribly--and I think that makes him a poor friend as well as a poor officer.

I’m not sure what Ron Moore could come up with to save William Adama as a human being in my eyes, mostly because I think he fails to see him as myself and others do.
Yeah, that's what worries me the most--there was no sign from RDM that he was conscious of the fact that Adama was becoming such an irredeemable figure. At this point in time Adama symbolises a great many of the characteristics I dislike most in people. Can't see that changing. :(

While there is still no way Lee could have known about the way in which Ellen Tigh died, I see now why Adama believed it to be Lee who informed Romo of the truth.
Thanks for that insight! I had missed that one.
If Season 4 doesn't show any change in Adama's characterization, I may have to start another comm. We can embrace the hate!

And I should feel bad about getting your riled up again, but I don't. ;)

he never (to my memory) acknowledges his contradictary actions--let alone addresses the damage they do.

Nope. And if he did it just once, I could at least give him some credit for finally learning from past mistakes. What kills me is he'll shoulder the blame for the apocalypse, but won't admit he failed his son. Sigh.

Tigh was a ticking timebomb, his issues unresolved. Adama mishandled him terribly--and I think that makes him a poor friend as well as a poor officer.

How much do you want to bet that after Tigh confessed that he had killed Ellen, Adama told him it's done, forget about it, and handed him a drink? :(

Thanks for that insight! I had missed that one.

Me too! Sitting there watching it for the forth time I suddenly went, "D'Oh!"
What kills me is he'll shoulder the blame for the apocalypse, but won't admit he failed his son. Sigh.
Right! And I think (unconsciously) he also passes on his guilt about the apocalypse to his son without offering him any meaningful support for dealing with that. I found that absolutely devastating--increasingly I feel it's obvious that at a subconscious level Lee picks up on his father's guilt and carries it as his personal burden--he lacks emotional boundaries with his father and takes everything straight to heart so I doubt he even sees clearly that it IS his father's issue, not his. Given that Adama isn't the slightest bit interested in working through his own problems in a healthy way, it falls to Lee to do all the emotional work in the relationship--which seems to be the pattern of his entire life: doing everyone else's emotional work for them, somehow supposed to be able to intuit what everyone else is feeling and ease their burden. As if he doesn't have enough problems of his own! /rant

How much do you want to bet that after Tigh confessed that he had killed Ellen, Adama told him it's done, forget about it, and handed him a drink? :(
Oh, I don't know... $10,000!? Seriously, that bet is impossible to lose. That is EXACTLY what happened. And the problem is Tigh would have been all to happy to jump at that, but it's not actually what Tigh needed.
If Season 4 doesn't show any change in Adama's characterization, I may have to start another comm. We can embrace the hate!


ME. I WANT TO JOIN. NOW!

Hey, I'm late but I'm here! I'm totally sorry I missed this because it's awesome to hear other people expressing the same view I have. I came searching all ready to rant out my Adama's an Ass manifesto, but you guys have pretty much covered it in this post and discussion, all I can do is lend my support to the notion that he has PROBLEMS.

Like asta77 despite the fact I hate his treatment of Lee, the thing I think is, in some ways, far more shocking is his enablement of Tigh. It's getting...beyond a joke. It's getting criminally negligent and horrifying as someone who's supposed to care about Saul's wellbeing. Especially since this is the man he repeatedly seems to choose over his own son.

I think my entire reaction to their relationship in the finale is basically, "Adama, when your ex-XO, who, when you last saw him, you had to relieve of duty because he was ranting about how the CYLONS PUT THE MUSIC INSIDE THE SHIP, stumbles into the CIC clearly disoriented and quite probably drunk, when you have just entered a combat situation where you have been ambushed by an enemy with superior technology and probably superior numbers, the correct respons IS NOT TO REASSURE HIM THAT YOU NEVER DOUBTED YOU COULD COUNT ON HIM!"

Um, okay. Apparently I wanted to rant a little. I feel better now...
It's getting criminally negligent and horrifying as someone who's supposed to care about Saul's wellbeing. Especially since this is the man he repeatedly seems to choose over his own son.

It occurs to me that Adama either is the most oblivious person in the fleet (not good for the man entrusted to defend it) or, much more likely, he chooses to ignore what is right in front of him because, OMG!, he may have to, ya know, really get involved in the lives of those supposedly closest to him and deal with their problems. 99.999999% of fandom was floored when in 'Unfinished Business' Adama failed to see Lee's devastation at the news of Kara's marriage. In 'The Son Also Rises' when Adama says to Lee "You think your grief is greater?" even I, the non-shipper, wants to scream, "Yes!" How can he not know that Lee was in love with Kara? Because he doesn't want to get involved in the very complicated relationship of his kids.

I bet if he was asked if he thought Tigh was an alcoholic Adama would say no. Tigh's his trusted friend and XO, he can't be a drunk. And the great Bill Adama wouldn't allow his friend to follow such a self-destructive path, he's too noble for that. Adama's created images in his mind of all the people he loves and he won't let reality interfere with that.

the correct respons IS NOT TO REASSURE HIM THAT YOU NEVER DOUBTED YOU COULD COUNT ON HIM!

But that's what makes Tigh such an awesome second in command - he can function while drunk! Accept, not. :p
I forgot how much of a complete BITCH Billis, especially to his wee boy who nearly died 88 times.