Asta 2

Battlestar Galactica: 'The Ties That Bind'

It's another long one. I'm sorry. This is what happens when they give Lee something to do and my ship is in the same room! ;p


I fall somewhere in between loving and hating ‘The Ties That Bind.’ There were aspects that gave me continued optimism that this is going to be a terrific season. The scenes between Lee, Laura, and Zarek, in my biased opinion, were awesome. The Cylon storyline, instead of making me want to hit the fast forward button as they did last season, I found intriguing. And many of the characters are taking fascinating turns. If Lee’s storyline is given as much time and care the rest of the season as it has in the first three episodes, I’m going to be quite happy.

Where this episode faltered for me is in the same area episodes have faltered for me in the past - the relationships between the couples and developments that came out of nowhere. But before I delve into that which irked, confused, and annoyed me, I’ll address what did work.

”That’ll teach us not to trust democracy.”

Last week, I felt parallels were being drawn between Laura and Nathalie. danceswithwords felt that the parallel was between Laura and Cavil. I’m leaning towards agreeing with her after events in this episode. We’re starting to see that the Cylons and the humans are more alike than different. Have the Cylons always been as they are now or has their interaction with humanity led them to adapt, perhaps unknowingly, to our way of doing things?

It seems the Cylons have long had a democracy, at least in the sense of debating their opinions and then coming together to vote with the majority winning. But now we are seeing the Cylons self-declared leader, Cavil, and the humans never-actually-elected-to-office leader, Laura Roslin, subverting the rules in order to keep their people on the path they see as the right one. Both see their means justifying the end. We now know Cavil’s model number is one, could we assume that he was constructed to more closely resemble humanity, faults and all? And Laura, how far removed has she become from the oaths she swore to uphold? Cavil lied to the Six’s and Eight’s; Laura is burying information under a classified stamp.

”Of the people, by the people, and answerable to the people.”

Last week, I hypothesized that Zarek’s intent was to manipulate Lee, a plan I didn’t believe Zarek would get very far with. Again, I feel I have to back off on my statement. Zarek did use Lee, but his reasons for doing so (and Lee’s for allowing it to happen) are not as clear as I once would have thought them to be.

I watched the discussion between Zarek and Lee many times and had a hard time grasping Zarek’s objective. Eventually, I looked at his demeanor. This is not the arrogant, power hungry Tom Zarek of Season 1 and 2. He seemed a weary, defeated man to me. I think New Caprica really took something from him, more so than his twenty years in prison. He faced death knowing that his ideals for a new colonial society would never be realized. And he returned to the fleet knowing he would never be accepted as president. He settled for the best position he could possibly obtain and now realizes, in doing so, he sidelined himself. He might be more in the know, but is less able to act on what he knows. He used Lee to do what he could not – challenge the president.

But why call out Laura Roslin and the actions she is taking if not making a power play? When Lee referred to Laura as a “benevolent tyrant” (and more on that in a bit), Zarek was quick to point out that tyrants want power, Laura wants to save them all. And Zarek claims to be on Laura’s side. So why would he act to destabilize her? I believe that as flawed as he may find her presidency, Zarek can think of no one better for the job. I feel is concern lies in Laura allowing her illness and single-minded determination to find earth undermining her leadership. She wants to save them all, but at what cost? She is so focused on the path to earth she has completely lost site of how they are getting their. Tom Zarek may be a fallen, embittered idealist, but he still holds on to those ideals. Maybe I’m completely wrong, but I think Tom Zarek’s concern is what kind of people they will be at the end of this journey, a concern he shares with Lee.

”Sometimes a benevolent tyrant is exactly what you need.”

Those are words Lee Adama would not have spoken a few years ago. His words surprised me, but not as much as I would have thought. It was clear from his determination to represent Baltar and his words on the stand that Lee Adama still has his ideals. But he’s also seen and been through a lot. It’s made him see that, perhaps, sometimes you need to compromise those ideals. And given his new life is a willingness to bend become a necessity?

I wondered how other Lee fans would perceive him in this episode. Personally, I love the turns his character is taking. That he’s opted to enter into the political arena came as a surprise to no one. Yet while his idealism and a sense of duty to make humanity try to live up to what it is capable of brought him to this point, will Lee come out of this the same person?

I once commented that I wondered if Lee could be Zarek twenty years from now. I never felt more strongly that he could be after watching this episode. His first day on the job and he’s already faced some harsh reality. At his press conference, he is brushed aside by the press and the president. His crestfallen expression kills me. He’s spent weeks preparing proposals to speak to Laura about and she refuses to see him, still unable to forgive or forget what transpired at Baltar’s trial. (And now I know why the scene between the two was cut from ‘Six of One’ – Laura warmly sending him off to his new post would have made no sense in light of events here.) The former CAG and commander of the Pegasus finds himself a junior delegate, not even worthy of being humored.

Lee’s ego and a critical miscalculation by Laura led to further disintegration in their relationship. Lee’s unwavering faith and admiration in her, in many things, is long gone. But there was a point, I felt, that Lee, recalling what she once meant to him, tried to help her. Lee’s lack of reaction to the various Demetrius discussions showed he had knowledge as to the true intent of the mission and Lee attempted to calm the situation by assuring the Quorum that all possible roots to earth were being explored. It was after Laura announced that she had “no need for a junior delegate appointing himself my spokesman” that Lee made his choice. As much as I believe Zarek’s earlier words spoke to the idealist in Lee, I also believe there was a bruised ego involved. There was a time when Laura was completely dependant on Lee for guidance, support, and protection. He once sacrificed everything that mattered to him to follow her and now she dismisses him. That has to hurt and we know what Lee does when he’s hurt – he lashes out. Granted, there was no shouting or fists flying, but this isn’t the arena for that. He attacks her in a way suited to the arena and, thanks to Zarek, he knows just how to hurt her. And whereas in the past, following such an exchange, Lee’s expression has revealed disappointment in himself for what he has just said or done, the moment ends here with a smirk. If Laura had hoped to trade on their past relationship and gain Lee’s obedience, she had a rude awakening.

You might think I’m angry at Lee or disheartened that my ship has come to this, but I’m not. What I’m seeing from Lee, even Laura, is true to the characters that I know and love. I actually got a little thrill seeing the Lee Adama smirk and the pissiness, come out once more. I worried that the writers, in taking Lee in this new direction, would begin to write him to fit a role, forgetting who he was. They haven’t and I’m happy.

”What we have here is a failure to communicate.”

Ok, not a line in the episode, but it sums up the situation well. A lot of people made bad situation worse by choosing to withhold key information. These decisions led to distrust where it needn’t exist. Tyrol can’t tell Cally he is a Cylon so Cally turns his meetings with Tory into an affair. Likely fearing it would weaken her position, Laura won’t reveal it was Adama who made the decision to send Kara off with the Demetrius to find earth. If Laura didn’t let her anger at Lee stop her from talking to him, he likely would be an ally again and would have held back at the Quorum meeting. If Zarek wasn’t being sidelined, he’d be less suspicious of Laura’s classified dealings…which brings me to Executive Order 112. It is possible that as a result of Baltar’s not guilty verdict Laura hopes to put a plan in place to retain more control over judicial proceeding. But with no eminent need for tribunals it hardly seems like a pressing issue. I’m apt to believe her that the document was a preliminary one still in need of work. But because of Laura’s increasing desire for secrecy and control and for seemingly not trusting anyone but the military commander I understand Zarek, Lee, and anyone else’s suspicion that she is attempting to consolidate control of the government.

Another obstacle Laura is creating for herself is her adamancy that the path she has the fleet on is the correct one. When Cavil remarked to Nathalie that D’Anna was boxed because she had led them down a divisive path, my mind immediately went to Kara. Kara is confronting Laura with the same problem. Laura views Kara as potentially destroying everything she has worked and fought so hard for. Last week Laura stated to Adama that on the day humanity was almost wiped out she was told she was dying, yet lived. She then was handed the responsibility of ensuring the continued survival of the remnants of humanity - first through an act of the articles, then through visions and scripture. It might not be a miracle, but she believes her survival is part of some greater plan and that can’t be upended solely by Kara’s feeling. The more she tightens her grip, the greater the potential is for her to lose everything, but I also see why she believes her way is the only way.

”They have their god to watch over their immortal souls.
”What about ours?”
”We’re machines dear. We don’t have souls.”

I don’t see any hope for a Cylon reunification. Perhaps their only hope for the survival of their race was the successful extinction of humanity, but it’s too late for that. Interaction with humanity coupled with the knowledge that five of their kind live among them has torn them apart. But keeping in mind, ‘This has all happened before and will happen again.’ Should humanity be blamed for the Cylon downfall? Cavil wants nothing to do with humanity and yet his atheism and makes him closer to us and quite different from the other models. He’s content to live with the cycle of death and rebirth whereas the others seem to be striving for something more.

Nathalie argues that they need to unbox the D’Anna model in an effort to unite the twelve models once and for all, yet her arguments are only succeeding in dividing them further. The models have now segregated themselves on separate basestars. Is this how humanities populating of the twelve colonies began? And once they settled on separate planets their own cultures, religions, and classes developed along with discrimination. Are the Cylons beginning to encounter the same divisions that existed within the colonies? I felt Lee’s joke at the press conference about having friends who weren’t from Caprica telling.

In another first, Cavil orders the destruction of the basestars without a resurrection ship present. He’s condemned Six for the first act of Cylon on Cylon violence and voiced his opinion to another One that Nathalie’s goal was ethnic cleansing, now he’s initiating a genocide.

"I married you because it was safe and easy, Sam."

I’m just going to say it, when it comes to couples, the show doesn’t know what it’s doing. I know, I know, you Lee/Kara and Adama/Roslin shippers will bring them up, but, come on, I know you’ve been pissed off too! ;) I’m all for the show cleaning up it’s mistakes, but I fear it’s going beyond that to placating the audience. We got a quick end to the Lee/Dee marriage last week. This week we had Kara voice to Sam something we’ve read countless times in blogs. And how many people have wished Cally dead? It’s not that I have a problem with any of this, it’s the way it’s handled. Don’t have Kara make an honest admission to Sam then have her fall into the same old patterns. And don’t have Sam fall back into the role of convenient frak. The writers finally gave Sam his own purpose by making him one of the final five, yet they turn around and make the choice to take him away from the other three in order to service Kara’s storyline (much as Lee did for seasons) and, frankly, to service Kara.

I can also go on a tangent, especially given Jane Espenson is on staff, about Kara channeling her inner Buffy with her pleas to Sam to “make me feel something” and lamenting feeling disconnected from life. I watched a season of this already, not again, thanks.

While I do understand that Kara is consumed by her mission, does that negate her remembering how to be a leader? With the exception of Helo, she’s treating them all like crap. Yes, she is the commander and they must follow her orders. But, here’s a tip, changing course ten times, without explanation, and locking yourself in your room tends to lead to a revolt by the troops. The artsy shot the director chose of Kara obscured in light and shadow, standing above them all, only helped to reinforce the image of a crazed, menacing leader.

I’m not broken up about Cally’s death, but I wish I had an inkling of why she was acting as she was and why she had to die. Her sudden soft focus crazy came out of nowhere. And if not for the fact I don’t believe her to be the final Cylon, I’d be suspicious of her not sleeping well since their visit to the nebula and her increasing paranoia. Maybe she died in order to develop Tory, but her actions here only further serve to confuse me. Yes, killing Cally was self-preservation, but there was something so cold about how she did it. Anders and Tyrol could never have killed Cally. Tigh perhaps could have but we know he’d struggle with his choice. There was a total lack of emotion from Tory. My instinct is to blame the actress, but perhaps it’s a deliberate decision on the part of the writers. We just no so little about her and I have no clue how to read her. Does she have feelings for Tyrol? Is she the new slut of the fleet? I can at least rationalize her protecting Nicky. She still has loyalty to Laura and she knows first hand how important Hera’s safety was to her. Nicky, another hybrid child, could be equally important to their futures.

Random Notes:

Did anyone else notice the white board count didn’t match the survivor count in the opning credits?

Please, never show us Boomer and Cavil making out again.

I liked that when they cut to Demetrius they showed it was Day 22 of the mission. I miss how they established the timeline in Season 1.

The scene of Adama reading to Laura seemed out of place given in the very next scene we see she is none too happy with him. And the text of the book was anvilicious, “never be free of her nor do I want to be…” ::gags::

Gaeta has long been involved in Baltar’s research on the path to earth, so I understand why he was chosen for the mission. But with Helo, Sharon, Seelix, and Anders along for the ride, Lee a civilian, and Tigh off holding secret meetings, who the hell is helping Adama run the Galactica? And who is babysitting Hera???

Joe’s Bar has napkins printed up? Really??? Is this a necessity on a ship with one bar? And shouldn’t they be saving their tissue supply for, I don’t know, toilet paper?
  • Current Mood: hungry hungry
I’m just going to say it, when it comes to couples, the show doesn’t know what it’s doing. I know, I know, you Lee/Kara and Adama/Roslin shippers will bring them up, but, come on, I know you’ve been pissed off too! ;) I’m all for the show cleaning up it’s mistakes, but I fear it’s going beyond that to placating the audience. We got a quick end to the Lee/Dee marriage last week. This week we had Kara voice to Sam something we’ve read countless times in blogs. And how many people have wished Cally dead? It’s not that I have a problem with any of this, it’s the way it’s handled. Don’t have Kara make an honest admission to Sam then have her fall into the same old patterns. And don’t have Sam fall back into the role of convenient frak. The writers finally gave Sam his own purpose by making him one of the final five, yet they turn around and make the choice to take him away from the other three in order to service Kara’s storyline (much as Lee did for seasons) and, frankly, to service Kara.


Sorry about quoting so much, but I agree with you in all of that, you've just expressed my thoughts so well!

And about the Helo and Sharon and Hera thing, too. And Joe's Bar?? for god's sake!!!
while i haven't the faintest clue what game zarek is playing, my first instinct was to believe that he's trying, somehow, to win lee over. zarek knows he's got no chance with adama once laura dies, and having lee on his side might help. i'm not saying he's doing that in the evil, plotting sort of way, but in the practical, logical, political way. i don't know, i really don't KNOW, but that was my first instinct.

what bothers me most, and i've said so in my post, is people's inability to comprehend the fact that laura has never been a president in the traditional sense of the word. she's always been a dictator. she's always done things that she didn't explain, or talk about. i bet she didn't confer with the quorum about athena's abortion, or sending kara back to caprica, or whatnot. and i suppor her, because she can't afford to waste time discussing things. or explaining things.

true, her actions might have become a little more obvious since there's this urgency she needs to just find earth before she dies - for both utterly selfish and unbelievably selfless reasons - but overall she isn't doing anything she hasn't done before.

and one more thing: people have only started being "upset" about her behaviour and secrecy since things have calmed down, since they aren't attacked every second day by cylons. back then it was good to have a military commander who knew what he was doing, and a president who knew which way earth was. it was all okay as long as they saved everyone ass, but now that things have calmed down somewhat, ppl are getting restless. why? idle hands and idle minds and all that...

The scene of Adama reading to Laura seemed out of place given in the very next scene we see she is none too happy with him. And the text of the book was anvilicious, “never be free of her nor do I want to be…” ::gags::

i didn't feel it was. to survive, as human beings, i think they have to separate the admiral from the man, and the president from the woman. cheesy as that might sound, it works for them. as for the line, it was intentionally corny. that's the way those books are written. i giggled when he started reading. ;)

as for kara, well, she's not kara anymore. not really really kara. i have no idea what's up with her, but she just isn't kara anymore. so, as far as i'm concerned, anything goes. it's just that i felt it was kind of boring. :)
I watched the Lee/Zarek scene five or six times and it still wasn't clear to me what exactly Zarek was up to. I consider myself pretty bright, but the dialogue I found a bit confusing. Ultimately, I had to look at body language and Zarek to didn't have the confidence or cockiness he's exhibited previously. I don't think he's given up on truth, justice, and the Colonial way, but he's given up on his ability make any real changes. I think he's passing the torch to Lee and not because he wants to take down Laura Roslin as he has wanted to in the past, but because he has real concerns for what kind of people they are turning into.

true, her actions might have become a little more obvious since there's this urgency she needs to just find earth before she dies - for both utterly selfish and unbelievably selfless reasons - but overall she isn't doing anything she hasn't done before.

I agree. Anyone who finds Laura's decisions shocking here hasn't been watching the show. ;p The only thing I will say is that Tory is perhaps encouraging her behavior more so than Billy or Lee would have. Not that either of those two could have won an argument with her, but she did listen to what they had to say and they may have forced her to consider different means to achieve her ends.
that scene still puzzles me. i did notice, like you said, the fact that he didn't seem nefarious in his motives, and that, perhaps, he seemed, if anything, a little sad and bitter about the whole affair, but i cannot discount the fact that he isn't stupid, and he's fully aware that he is next in line. and adama does not like him.

perhaps he's taking advantage of lee's idealism, or maybe he's counting on the fact that lee, being new to the political scene, will be more easily forgiven for saying certain things. i am not sure.

i was talking to pellucid about tory and her influence over laura, and i sort of came away with the idea that tory, while not exactly pushing laura toward the dark side, maybe has facilitated those darker impulses, like you said. i do believe though that there's also despair at work here, and fear. fear that she might die before she sees them all to safety, and fear that perhaps she can't, because what she had thought to be her destiny was a lie, or a series of coincidences at best. and, ultimately, fear of what the people might do if left, again, to their own devices.
I think I'm the only one in the world who previously liked Callie. Because of that, if it had to go that way, I wish she vented herself and the kid. Not sure where Tory's superstrength came from; then again, Six was able to dodge bullets when the script needed it. Lazy.

But what's really lazy, lets push each other around and then do it. Cause that's never happened on TV before. All so stupid and I could care less. Yeah, Buffy S6 again. Not hot. Hot:

More Lee and Laura glaring please.

How many eps this season? Trying to understand what the pace is.
I've known about Cally's death since last fall so I couldn't get overly worked up about it at this point. I don't have a problem with her dying since I don't feel she serves any real purpose on the show at this point, but I could have done without them making her crazy before offing her. Is there something about minor characters having to have a meltdown before killing them?

More Lee and Laura glaring please.

YES! YES! YES! Especially since I'll never get my wish. ;)

It's a 22 episode season if you count 'Razor' and 20 if you don't.
Just finished watching it. In some ways I'm having more trouble processing this episode than I did the last one. In the last one it was an explosion of awesome I couldn't quite comprehend. Here it's...just things I can't comprehend. I'm not sure they're nonsensical, but I'm not sure I understand them either.

Regarding Kara: I think that she's supposed to be going a little crazy on us: a little Kurtzveil but with an actual mission which is...terrifying, frankly. I'm still processing her jump from freed, expressive and driven to shut down and driven between the last episode and this one, though.

I actually liked Sam in this, though I thought Kara's blunt "bloglike" dialogue was very, very clunky. If they trusted the actors more, and just had her suddenly wanting to screw him instead of having him leave, it would have worked better.

Regarding the L/L I'm...oh BLERGH. I don't know whether to love it or hate it! I know what you're saying, and I AGREE that they're both acting in character. But previously, Laura was the only political figure so it was up to her to act as both "good cop" and "bad cop" and I loved that complex balance. Now that they have Lee as "good cop" I'm worried they'll simplify her into "bad cop". Or, not entirely simplify her. Nothing on this show is two-dimensional. But I worry she'll go from four to three dimensions? I dunno. Airlocking Leoben was interesting because that's not who she is. And while I'm amenable to her changing and becoming harder and harsher, god I miss her, and I'm not sure the show does. I should have more faith, I think. I'm also confused because while I believe it, I feel a little betrayed at suddenly hearing that Laura's secretive and controlling from Zarek, rather than seeing it and going through it with her. And I think I'm supposed to believe it, even though he's clearly wrong about the Demetrius. Again, perhaps I'm misreading. After all, I was scared Tory would fall for Gaius.

I think I'm just overinvested!

Speaking of Tory, yeah, that was weird. I love the actress, so I don't quite think it was her fault. Her deliveries of lines often catch me offguard in a good way (well the few she has...) I have some ideas, to do with Tory choosing to be her own damn messiah, but I'll go into more detail over on my LJ.

As to Cally and why she was acting the way she was acting, I'm pretty sure she was suffering from psychotic depression. She may not have been through more than everyone else in the fleet, but people react to stress and pressure differently. I also wonder if it was exaggerating an already present post-partum depression and which also occasionally has psychotic features? I'm wondering about the psychosis because she was actually flashbacking to stuff she never saw - like Tyrol leaning in to kiss Tory. It would also explain her feeling so hopeless that she'd try to commit suicide with her kid there. So yeah, I think that in Cally's case she was just straight-up mentally ill.

Please, never show us Boomer and Cavil making out again.

I COULD NOT POSSIBLY AGREE WITH YOU MORE.

The scene of Adama reading to Laura seemed out of place given in the very next scene we see she is none too happy with him

I minded that less because it made me feel that she wasn't letting his personal behaviour towards her get in the way of her issues with him. i.e. he couldn't by her off with reading brownie points.

::gags::

::gags:: with you.

And shouldn’t they be saving their tissue supply for, I don’t know, toilet paper?

That's what I thought. I rationalised that Tyrol was a smarter man than Joe and that's why he kept the napkin. ;)
If they trusted the actors more, and just had her suddenly wanting to screw him instead of having him leave, it would have worked better.

Yeah. I think part of the problem is they felt compelled to have Kara share everything she was thinking and it wasn't really necessary. After every thing she has been through, wanting some physical affection from her husband would make sense to me.

Now that they have Lee as "good cop" I'm worried they'll simplify her into "bad cop".

But is Lee the good cop? He was buying into a lot of what Zarek had to say without knowing all the facts. Then again, if Laura would take a meeting with him she could have cleared up a lot of this and avoided being called out in front of everyone.

I'm not concerned with Laura losing some dimension, but you make an interesting point that we've always seen Laura make some of her more questionable decisions and this one was revealed to us by Zarek. Maybe it was a way to show how isolated she has become? That she is no longer asking for opinions or sharing her thoughts as she used to and she is becoming more and more the dictator.

I rationalised that Tyrol was a smarter man than Joe and that's why he kept the napkin. ;)

Hee! Good point. ;)
But is Lee the good cop? He was buying into a lot of what Zarek had to say without knowing all the facts.

That's a really good point, and why I'm...worried that I'm simply overreacting because I'm so over-invested in this storyline (because LEE and LAURA in the same ROOM). And I have to admit, having rewatched it...the whole fighting thing...was kinda hot. ::guilt::

But still: while I'm sitting there thinking, you know, Zarek, you instituted the Circle, so transparent and legal justice systems aren't exactly your forte - both of the people I discuss this show with who have, shall we say, realworld levels of attachment to it and don't think that much about it and who I usually take to be a good barometer of the generic viewing population (which is probably horribly snobby!) just kinda...figured that the show was going the Roslin = Dictator route, and glommed more onto Zarek as an idealistic figurehead than a manipulator.

I think you're right that she'll never be simple. I also think I'm overreacting. But I suppose my worry isn't that she'll stop being complex, but that she'll start being a complex and intelligent Bush parallel instead of defying political analogisation? I still think comparing her to Natalie is infinitely more interesting but I also think you're right that the Cavil comparisons here were a little anvilicious.

Darnit, I'm just a bit wimp! I wuv her so and I don't want her to be eeeevil and fight with Lee (unless I know that they're going to make up real soon: then I can handle the hotness fighting...)
And I have to admit, having rewatched it...the whole fighting thing...was kinda hot. ::guilt::

As much as I'd like to see them be friendly again, yeah, the fighting is kind of hot. ;)

Asta!! Great comments and I agree!! I loved that they at least have Laura and Lee in the same scenes again...loved the verbal sparring and the glares....but yeah....I know it is going to get much worse and I truly hope they don't reduce Laura down to a babbling idiot.....I wish they could keep a nice balance so that Laura and Lee can keep that sexual tension chemistry just bubbling under the surface!! I just love Mary and Jamie scenes together....THEY ARE JUST AWESOME!! :THUD:
I wish they could keep a nice balance so that Laura and Lee can keep that sexual tension chemistry just bubbling under the surface!! I just love Mary and Jamie scenes together

WORD. ;)

Edited at 2008-04-20 08:24 pm (UTC)
Maybe I’m completely wrong, but I think Tom Zarek’s concern is what kind of people they will be at the end of this journey, a concern he shares with Lee.

Yes, which is why Lee's choice of this path really works for me. He's spent the past few years intrigued (and frustrated) by where things are going in the Fleet -- what kind of society they'll build -- and the Baltar trial pushed him to the point of action. Instead of observing with frustration, he's now in a position where he can DO something about it. Of course, idealism often crashes, and I'm sure Lee's will soon. But it should be a great arc to watch!
Of course, idealism often crashes, and I'm sure Lee's will soon.

Lee believes he can actually make a difference as a member of the Quorum and I wonder if we are going to see him become disillusioned with the process. He seemed to assume that Laura would be more than willing to sit down and go over his ideas with him and quickly got a does of reality. And I loved how the Quorum appeared to be no different than Congress, only on a smaller scale.
It seems the Cylons have long had a democracy, at least in the sense of debating their opinions and then coming together to vote with the majority winning. But now we are seeing the Cylons self-declared leader, Cavil, and the humans never-actually-elected-to-office leader, Laura Roslin, subverting the rules in order to keep their people on the path they see as the right one. Both see their means justifying the end. We now know Cavil’s model number is one, could we assume that he was constructed to more closely resemble humanity, faults and all? And Laura, how far removed has she become from the oaths she swore to uphold? Cavil lied to the Six’s and Eight’s; Laura is burying information under a classified stamp.

I didn't pick that up; that's some verra interesting meat to chew on.
I really enjoyed the first two episodes because they were not relationship oriented. Anytime they try to address relationships they totally misfire.
But now we are seeing the Cylons self-declared leader, Cavil, and the humans never-actually-elected-to-office leader, Laura Roslin, subverting the rules in order to keep their people on the path they see as the right one. Both see their means justifying the end. We now know Cavil’s model number is one, could we assume that he was constructed to more closely resemble humanity, faults and all?
Oh, I'm glad I'm not alone seeing the Laura-Cavil parallel. That's an interesting theory about Cavil being rendered closer to the humans. I'll have to think about that.

I once commented that I wondered if Lee could be Zarek twenty years from now. I never felt more strongly that he could be after watching this episode.
Yeah, I felt that too. And I don't yet know completely how I feel about that. But I do know I'm really enjoying watching the journey.

It was after Laura announced that she had “no need for a junior delegate appointing himself my spokesman” that Lee made his choice. As much as I believe Zarek’s earlier words spoke to the idealist in Lee, I also believe there was a bruised ego involved
Yup, spot-on analysis--I completely agree. Like you I was worried that they might start to write Lee a bit differently, to fit a role, but I found this really true to Lee. Not pushing him too far.

And don’t have Sam fall back into the role of convenient frak. The writers finally gave Sam his own purpose by making him one of the final five, yet they turn around and make the choice to take him away from the other three in order to service Kara’s storyline (much as Lee did for seasons) and, frankly, to service Kara.
Srsly. I am SO ANGRY about that. I was loving what they were doing with Sam's storyline. This is a disservice to him and to Kara. And it was also icky as get out.

While I do understand that Kara is consumed by her mission, does that negate her remembering how to be a leader?
Apparently. And I don't see there's any purpose to it. It was atmospheric and intriguing but then... led nowhere. If there had been an explanation of why her leadership was so crap I'd be a lot more comfortable.

perhaps it’s a deliberate decision on the part of the writers.
I think it is. She seemed to be getting triggered massively into acting with Cylon objectives.

Your random notes--particularly the one about Joe's Bar--cracked me up.
I like your insight about Lee possibly becoming what Zarek is 20 years on. I never expected to like Zarek's character as much as I do, but he gets more intriguing all the time.

I'm also in complete agreement about the relationship stuff. They just don't know how to write that kind of story.

A propos of nothing, I thought of you today. There was a "Thin Man" movie on TV. Now, Nick and Nora--that was a relationship!
I never expected to like Richard Hatch as much as I do!

A propos of nothing, I thought of you today. There was a "Thin Man" movie on TV. Now, Nick and Nora--that was a relationship!

Hee. Another Thin Man - I watched it today. :) Seeing the name 'Asta' on screen - weird! And, yeah, Nick and Nora are one of the most awesome couples ever (minus the drinking ;). Why can't they write couples like that anymore???
It seems the Cylons have long had a democracy, at least in the sense of debating their opinions and then coming together to vote with the majority winning. But now we are seeing the Cylons self-declared leader, Cavil, and the humans never-actually-elected-to-office leader, Laura Roslin, subverting the rules in order to keep their people on the path they see as the right one.

That is a very interesting parallel. Both are more amenable to democracy when the voting goes their way, but have been willing to try to subvert it when it hasn't, because they're convinced they know what's best. And that's, really, the danger of democracy: sometimes people make bad choices. But at least their their choices.

And shouldn’t they be saving their tissue supply for, I don’t know, toilet paper?

Maybe they're making paper out of algae!
I can also go on a tangent, especially given Jane Espenson is on staff, about Kara channeling her inner Buffy with her pleas to Sam to “make me feel something” and lamenting feeling disconnected from life.

True, but we also saw enough of this "jumping in the sack to enjoy the moment" from Kara earlier on in the series, before JE ever showed up. There was the (in)famous Lee-Kara scene in Scar, and she was quick to jump Anders back on Caprica, too. On the one hand, it's totally reminiscent of Buffy and the "make me feel something" thing, but on the other hand this is just Kara being Kara, selfishly seeking to satisfy her own immediate desires without care for what it does to those around her. I can totally see why you (and others) draw the parallel, but I think the parallel is limited more to her choice of dialogue than it is an actual repeat of character stuff from a different series. If that makes sense.


Joe’s Bar has napkins printed up? Really??? Is this a necessity on a ship with one bar? And shouldn’t they be saving their tissue supply for, I don’t know, toilet paper?

Lol. So true. :)
I agree, Kara's behavior was very much in character (sadly), It's just when she started telling instead of showing, going on and on about needing to feel and not feeling connected to her body, it just screamed Buffy to me. Had she just asked Sam to frak her, I wouldn't have thought much about it.
I'm intrigued by what the writers are doing with Lee's character, I really hope they don't drop the ball. I'm cautiously optimistic.

I really could do without BtVS season 6 redux. But hot! Lee-Laura glaring? More, please!

The way they shot Demetrius scenes kinda bugged because I was really tempted to read them as, uhm, over the top. The lighting, the close-ups, the pirate ship squalor, and especially those shots of backlit Kara. I haven't looked at the boards yet, I wonder if I'm the only crazy who saw it this way. It's probably my mood, tomorrow I could read it very differently.;)