Lee - Awesome - Airings

Battlestar Galactica Rewatch Part 1

I'm probably the only one who cares that The Librarian: The Curse of the Judas Chalice premieres tonight. Don't judge me! :p  What some of you may be interested in is Leverage premieres after it at 10:00pm est. Christian Kane and his bad hair co-star.

I've mentioned my Battlestar Galactica rewatch. I just finished watching 'Home Part 2' earlier today. My plan was to post as I watched, but I ended up having marathon viewings and twelve pages of notes. I realize no one's attention span is that long when it comes to posts, so I'm just posting through 'Colonial Day' (plus I did some editing). Since I have at least one person on my Flist who recently began watching the show, I'll warn that their are spoilers for what has aired to date.

 

33

  • I’m still having trouble believing they all went five and a half days without sleep. 
  • Supposedly, Ron and David didn’t decide who the final five would be until Season 3, but, in addition to Boomer, Tyrol and Tigh seem to be fairing better than the rest of the crew without sleep. 
  • How did Helo become separated from the survivors we saw him with in the mini? 
  • Baltar feels he’s being manipulated by Six, but is he playing the odds?  His choices could be based on deducing what Adama and Roslin will do next. 
  • Before firing on the Olympic Carrier, Starbuck asks Lee what if he is wrong.  Um, it’s not his decision to make.  It’s called following orders.


Water 

  • Even though Lee and Adama reconciled after the attacks, the show is establishing that their differences haven’t gone away along with the anger.  While Lee has the ability to make snap decisions, it’s his nature to question whether those decisions were the right ones.  I get that.  Because, if you decide you made the wrong one, you learn from it and don’t repeat your mistake in the future.  Adama’s attitude is what is done is done and you move one.  You don’t live in the past because it may jeopardize your future.  They both have points and it’s hard to argue one is right and one is wrong. 
  • I didn’t realize how soon they set up Laura as a pragmatist and benevolent dictator.  She’s not worried about the means, but the ends. With riots breaking out, she asks Adama to use the military to maintain order.  It is Adama who stresses they shouldn’t use the military as police - “One fights the enemy of the state, the other serves and protects the people.  When the military becomes both then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.”   Laura states she won’t let that happen, but we know by Season 4 the Cylons are not the only threat and it’s because of choices she makes. 
  • Boomer, at times, successfully fights her sleeper programming.  Does this ability allow her to split from her the rest of the eights later on?  And why is it that of seven Cylon models only two have individual personalities?  Six, by far, has the most unique personalities.  Have we ever seen two Sixs remotely alike? But the Sharons do differ a bit whereas the Leobens, D’Annas, Cavils, Simons, and Dorels seem to share the same personality.  Is this important or is it just a consequence of what they needed from the characters for the show?   
  • Laura to Lee: “Do you see why I need you?”  Ha!  She <i>needs</i> him.  Yes, be prepared, I will be pointing these important moments out. ;p 

 

Bastille Day 

  • It’s been about two weeks since the attacks and the Adama family détente is crumbling: 

Lee: “I didn’t know we were picking sides.”
Adama: “That’s why you haven’t picked one yet.” 

  • I’m still in awe that Lee decided to take on a dozen guys, most of whom were much bigger than him.  I don’t think it’s a sign of the death wish he’ll have later on, but it’s clear he still has a lot of anger in him. 
  • They had five nuclear warheads left.  I haven’t been keeping track, do they have any left now? 
  • You gotta love Tom Zarek.  The fleet is facing death by dehydration and he wants elections now.  And he’s willing to sacrifice his men - and himself - if it means the collapse of the government.  Forget he won’t be around to see his ‘victory’.  He has a tendency to not think plans through and I’m feeling as if his rush to act and nihilism will come into play again soon.  I wish we had a bit more backstory on Tom because I’m still trying to figure out if he is just a guy who craves power or a fallen idealist – a man broken by the system he railed against who can now only see success by alternately playing by and undermining the system’s rules. 
  • Apollo is the god of the bow and the hunt as well as healing.  Lee’s “just a nickname” seems too appropriate to be random.  He’s an excellent soldier and leader, but the idealist in him puts the good of the fleet before the military and he has a desire to serve and help the people. 
  • While Lee is resolving the situation with Zarek, Kara fires at Zarek.  Her choice bothered me and it was an early sign I would never be a big fan of Kara’s.  Kara has a plan to follow, more often than not it’s her plan, and she’s following through with it, period.  I know she’s shown to more often be right than not, but, again, that’s a problem for me.  It’s the whole ‘Kara is special’ and I’m more of the mindset that they are all special.  All of them, together, account for their survival and path to earth or whatever their final destination may be.  But Kara probably needs to be special; it will make up for her screwups.  I don’t mean to go on a Kara rant.  It’s not as if I hate her.  It’s just I find myself frustrated with her getting away with more than others on the show. 
  • Adama to Lee: “You sound like some sort of lawyer.”  Oh, Bill, you have no idea how prophetic you are being.

 
Act of Contrition 

  • It’s the 14th day and Flattop is having his 1000th landing.  So soon?  His death doesn’t get an easier on repeated viewing. 
  • Lee tells Adama that Kara almost decked him in the rec room, to which Adama smiles.  Lee gave an order, Kara refused to follow it, and Adama chooses to laugh it off.  Which sets up that Kara can get away with crap as long as it doesn’t affect William Adama. 
  • Adama is angry at Kara for passing Zak, but he’s also angry at himself and feeling guilty.  Kara is confirming what Lee said to him – that Zak was not cutting it as a pilot and doing it all for him. 
  • Kara about Zak: “I was so in love with him.”  I believe her, which is just one reason I’ve always had problems with Lee/Kara.

 

You Can’t Go Home Again 

  • Adama can order the Olympic Carrier with 1,300 people possibly onboard destroyed, yet he isn’t able to leave Kara behind.  With his inability to separate the personal from the professional, coupled with viewing his crew as family, I see why Adama didn’t rise above the rank of commander and remained stuck on Galactica.  He’s smart and has a good military mind, but he too often allows personal feelings to dictate his decisions.  He can get away with that now and, occasionally, it even works to the fleet’s advantage, but his lack of perspective would have been a problem for him prior to the attacks. 
  • When Tigh is being a voice of reason you know there is a problem.  And Lee grabbing him is another sign of his anger issues. 
  • I love watching Laura make Lee and Adama feel about two inches tall. 

 

Litmus 

  • Tyrol was suspected to be a Cylon.  This along with some other moments in my rewatch make me think they knew Tyrol was going to be revealed as a Cylon at some point. 
  • Adama mentions his father was a civil liberties attorney.  Was this before or after he defended criminals as Romo stated he did. 
  • Yeah, that’s all I got on this one.  It’s still not a favorite of mine.  Way too predictable.

 

Six Degrees of Separation 

  • It’s been 24 days since the attacks which means they skipped a week.  The missing time does help to explain Helo and Sharon falling in love. 
  • Is love blind?  How could Helo and Tyrol not suspect the Sharons at this point? 
  • Whatever happened to Shelly Godfrey?  Is she still lurking in the fleet?  Did she airlock herself and was reborn on a basestar?  I need answers! 
  • Tyrol struggled with the Cylon raider while Boomer felt drawn to it.  Is it a sign that the five don’t have the same connection? 
  • I find Jamie on crutches really cute, though I hope he never actually needs them. 
  • And who wrote “Cylon” on Boomer’s mirror? Shelly?

 

Flesh and Bone 

  • Confession time.  I’ve never found Leoben all that fascinating and his psychoanalysis of Kara is not only sketchy, I find some it doesn’t make sense.  As to how he knows what he knows about her, I still have no clue.  Assuming Kara never told anyone what happened to her as a child, we have to believe something mystical is going on.   
  • Leoben: “All this has happened before and will happen again…destiny is already written…each play a role, each time play a different role.”  These words or similar words are repeated throughout the course of the series.  I believe Ron has always known how he wanted to end the series, even if he wasn’t certain how they would get there, and I think Leoben’s words will play a big role in the finale.  How, exactly, I’m not sure.  We could literally experience some huge time jump with the same players playing different roles.    
  • “Adama is a Cylon.”  Unless Zak shows up, I’m assuming Leoben was just trying to unsettle Laura. 
  • At the end of this episode that I felt Caprica, the series, would be pointless.  If destiny, or history, is already written, then why should we care about what happened fifty years before the attacks?  An inherent problem with prequels is the actions of the characters won’t change anything.  At best it can enrich what we’ve seen and what we know, but it won’t change it.  As a two hour film, I’d be fine with Caprica, just as I was fine with Razor filling in blanks.  But right now I’m paralyzed with not carrying about what happened decades before the Cylons wiped out the colonies.


Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down 

  • I still find it suspicious that Ellen was unconscious for three weeks and has no memory of what happened to her.  I find it equally hard to believe she’d be the last Cylon. 
  • Laura was exchanging glances with Lee all through dinner.  I’m just sayin’. 
  • How did Ellen not know about Zak?  It’s been two years and I didn’t think she and Tigh were separated.  I can’t imagine he didn’t tell her about Zak’s death. 

 

Hand of God 

  • 36 Days – wow, it’s only been about a month since the attacks. 
  • Laura sees the snakes because of her Kamala use.  If she didn’t have cancer, she wouldn’t be taking the Kamala and thus not having the visions.  It helps to support that not only is she the dying leader, but she has a destiny.  The knowledge strengthens her resolve and reinforces to her that her decisions are the right ones for the fleet’s survival.  It also explains her fear and hostility when Kara later challenges her beliefs.  If she doesn’t have her destiny, what does she have?  Why did she survive the attacks?   
  • Under Lee’s tutelage she has learned a lot about the military.  Instead of telling the pilots, “Good Luck” she tells them, “Good hunting everyone.” 
  • Here’s another problem I have.  I grant you, Kara does have outside the box thinking, which they need.  However, I have issues with her instructing Lee as to how to run the mission.  How much combat experience did she see before the war?  None of the pilots have any and, on top of that, she was stuck on Galactica. 
  • She’s right, Lee can over think, but telling him, “Don’t frak it up by over-thinking”, is not the best pep talk. 
  • I don’t believe Starbuck could do better, Lee!  Sometimes *I* feel as if I’m the only one who has faith in him.  Lee so deeply desires his father’s acceptance, he grabs onto it on the rare occasion Adama grants it.  Of course, he only grants it when Lee’s on a military mission. 

 

Colonial Day 

  • Whatever happened to Wallace Grey?   
  • There is a lot of quick forgiveness in this fleet. A couple weeks earlier, Baltar was looking at being executed as a traitor and now he’s chosen the Caprican delegate. 
  • Lee’s bar fight was a set up for discovering the gun, but, again, it shows his anger management issues. 
  • Assuming Zerek is telling the truth, who killed Valance?   
  • Laura informs Lee she won’t send the Sagittarian delegation back to their ships because it would be in violation of their civil rights.  Yet, she instructs Lee to bug Zarek’s quarters, tap his phone, and “shut him down”.  It’s the first time that Lee’s eyes are opened to what she is capable of doing to get her way.


  • Current Mood: contemplative contemplative
Tags:
It has been a long time since I've watched season 1. I forgot how much I enjoyed it.

Lee gave an order, Kara refused to follow it, and Adama chooses to laugh it off. Which sets up that Kara can get away with crap as long as it doesn’t affect William Adama.

That annoyed me at the time, too, and now with my Adama issues these days, I wonder if it would be even more annoying? I have such limited patience with Adama after season 3 and much of season 4.
My Adama rage hasn't kicked in yet. I disagree with some of his choices in the Season 1, like removing Laura from office (which, yes, I will have thoughts on. ;), but I can understand where he's coming from at this point in the series. I think what is frustrating is that I can see how Lee, Laura, and others are not the exact same people they were when it all started. But Adama hasn't changed, in other words, he hasn't learned from his experiences and I hate zero character growth. On the other hand, I'm feeling much more sympathetic to Tigh and Ellen.
Ellen in TMUTMD: The comment about Zak always bugged me to the point that I asked Kate Vernon about that scene at the BSG con last year. I was wondering if Ellen was playing them and trying to cause a rift by her "playing" she didn't know about Zak, acting drunker then she was and so on.

No, Kate said the writers were pretty much making it up as they went along. *sigh*
Good to know, so to speak. The writers probably wanted to create a really awkward moment and thought it was the best way to do it, but it doesn't make any sense that she wouldn't have that knowledge.
You know, reading through this post I suddenly had a minor lightbulb moment about why I so rarely comment on your posts. I've been reading your journal since I discovered BSG in the spring of 2007 and I can't remember when I put you on my reading list, but it's been a while, and yet I don't think I've commented more than a dozen times or so, which is odd even by my standards. The thing is that I tend to agree whole heartedly with you and making comments along the line of "I totally agree" just doesn't make for interesting conversation *g*

But I was reading this comprehensive take on season 1 and just sitting here nodding me head off, which finally brought it home to me. So, just for the record, I totally agree with you here :D
Icon twins!

And, heh, thanks. :) I appreciate your comment. I sometimes wonder if anyone is reading. ;) But I also understand feeling like you have nothing much to add, I've been there myself with people's posts. If you do ever disagree, please jump in! Or feel free to agree with the rest of my posts. ;)
Hee, I'm pretty sure I spotted the icon here and then went and tracked it down because I wanted a special icon for LeeWeek, preferably one with a touch of humour alongside the mad fangirling aspect.

If I'm around I do read what you have to say and not only about BSG -- IIRC we were very much on the same page with both of the SG1 movies as well. Maybe I should just make an icon that says "I totally agree *g*" and start spamming you with that :D
I’m still having trouble believing they all went five and a half days without sleep.
I saw the write-up for a board of inquiry that talked about the effect of lack of sleep on the ability of soldiers to work. We saw with Adama and Tigh that they haven't gone totally without sleep - individuals would likely have been catnapping. That said, the military would be in an horrific state - at that point, you're talking people falling asleep when they sit down or lean against something, inability to concentrate on tasks, loss of fine motor skills... frankly, every time someone used the ships head, you could expect to hear snoring.

How did Helo become separated from the survivors we saw him with in the mini?
This is something I always wanted to know!

Before firing on the Olympic Carrier, Starbuck asks Lee what if he is wrong. Um, it’s not his decision to make. It’s called following orders.
Absolutely. One of the things I liked about Lee from the start is that when the military are shown on tv, you normally get two stereotypes:

1. The soldier who always (always) follows orders, and when it all goes wrong, announces "I was following orders!" and who thereby takes no responsibility for their actions,
2. The rebel, who always bucks orders and always turns out to be right.

With Lee, they took another route - and gave us someone who follows the orders that have to be followed, and then takes personal responsibility for them - even when he possible shouldn't. How cool is that?

Laura states she won’t let that happen, but we know by Season 4 the Cylons are not the only threat and it’s because of choices she makes.
It's interesting how they've made Laura grow, and how they've highlighted the way her actions can be viewed from both sides of the argument in play.

And why is it that of seven Cylon models only two have individual personalities?
And it's only the last two models we know about 6 and 8 - that this seems to be the case with. Although I'm not sure how much of it was that the actors simply weren't available for long enough to give us nuanced individual performances. The Doral's all seemed fairly similar, and we've probably seen more iterations of that model than any other after 6 and 8.

I don’t think it’s a sign of the death wish he’ll have later on, but it’s clear he still has a lot of anger in him.
Did you notice how he didn't hesitate, either? This reminds me of him boxing Helo later on - another incident where he should've been completely outclassed, but fought anyway and to considerable effect.

I wish we had a bit more backstory on Tom because I’m still trying to figure out if he is just a guy who craves power or a fallen idealist
The comics play him up as very much the latter, but I think that's rather to be expected. I did wonder at the time if Zarek was compartmentalising in Bastille Day - the end of the world is too big to comprehend, but elections are a problem he can obsess on while he adjusts...

It’s just I find myself frustrated with her getting away with more than others on the show.
I remember writing a piece once on how annoyed I was that Lee, as someone who isn't "special", makes the tough decisions and gets put in the position of being "wrong", with the final resolution coming from typical tv hero type actions from Kara/Adama. For a show that prides itself on being gritty, some characters just get away with being shown as being typically unrealistic hero types who save the world by taking risks or making decisions that no real military commander could possibly back. I think in part it stems from the writers not knowing what to do with Lee - and if you accept that the show isn't as grittily realistic as it likes to think it is, then it's not a big jump to presume that the writers are in the habit of simply using Lee as a foil so that the others are more visibly heroic.
frankly, every time someone used the ships head, you could expect to hear snoring.

Heh. And that's my problem. Catnaps are not going to cut it and I'd say it would be three days at most before people just collapsed. I can't even believe stims would be very effective at that point. I love the episode, it just has always nagged at me that they are showing people at that level of functionality after five days with little to no sleep.

And it's only the last two models we know about 6 and 8 - that this seems to be the case with. Although I'm not sure how much of it was that the actors simply weren't available for long enough to give us nuanced individual performances. The Doral's all seemed fairly similar, and we've probably seen more iterations of that model than any other after 6 and 8.

I tend to believe that talent played a role in how dynamic the characters became. I'm not slamming the others, but when Ron and Co. discovered just how talented Tricia was I think they set out to show her range and that meant more unique versions of Six.

I would also agree with you that the actors schedules would play a role. Tricia and Grace are series regulars, they know they have them to work with each week. But with guest actors you have less time to work with them and less screen time for them and it's easier, perhaps even better, to stick with what the audience knows.

Did you notice how he didn't hesitate, either?

I still remember watching that scene for the first time thinking, "Oh, he;s not about to take on all those guys." He lets his anger override other emotions (at lease in the first three seasons), but he won't let his fear get the better of him either.....unless it's telling Kara how he really feels. ;)

I did wonder at the time if Zarek was compartmentalising in Bastille Day - the end of the world is too big to comprehend, but elections are a problem he can obsess on while he adjusts...

Yet, he had less to adjust to. He was in prison for decades and seemingly had no family and no friends to lose other than his boyfriend friend we met in 'Home'. For him, the end of the world was a new beginning.

I remember writing a piece once on how annoyed I was that Lee, as someone who isn't "special", makes the tough decisions and gets put in the position of being "wrong", with the final resolution coming from typical tv hero type actions from Kara/Adama.

Yep. I'm sure some rants will be forthcoming as I get further in my viewing. ;)
It’s the 14th day and Flattop is having his 1000th landing. So soon? His death doesn’t get an easier on repeated viewing.
That's not so implausible - we learned in LDYB that the fleet was more than 200 jumps from the home system, and I think they mention in 33 making 200 or so jumps alone. If Flat-top was in the air for each one of those missions, that's over 200 landings to begin with; he was one of the existing Galactica pilots and could easily rack up several hundred landings in a year of regular duty. That's assuming the 1000th landing refers to landings in general, not combat landings of course...

He’s smart and has a good military mind, but he too often allows personal feelings to dictate his decisions.
And he's in denial about it. Remember his "I don't do guilt" speech from S3? There were some lines in the original script for the mini that didn't make it into the released version, where Lee sounds off at Adama over Adama using his personal influence to get Zak into flight school. I think Adama's shown as being highly partisan in his decisions, and while I think that worked well in Pegasus as a visible counterpoint to Cain's command style, I think it also makes him a highly subjective military officer - which is far from ideal.

When Tigh is being a voice of reason you know there is a problem.
Yes... but then this is one of the reasons I also like Tigh, because he shows that he can be a good officer, when he's got his act together.

How could Helo and Tyrol not suspect the Sharons at this point?
I think with Helo, it's easier to understand his thinking. If he thinks that Sharon's a Cylon, then that makes him all alone and on the verge of death in a post-apocalyptic irradiated hellhole. So long as Sharon's human, then he's not alone, and it's them against the aforementioned hellhole. People don't react well to isolation, and without Sharon he'd be in real trouble.

Tyrol I think suffers from from stubborn denial than anything else - although there must be good mileage for some psychology papers on the effect of being in the fishbowl the fleet's become on the behaviour of those left alive.

Whatever happened to Shelly Godfrey? Is she still lurking in the fleet? Did she airlock herself and was reborn on a basestar? I need answers!
I don't think we'll get any, sadly. I think Shelly is one of those things that's going to be handwaved - and the idea of apparitions that can affect the physical world raises all sorts of questions about how much free will anyone in the fleet actually had.

And who wrote “Cylon” on Boomer’s mirror? Shelly?
In the deleted scenes, it's shown to be Boxy; he's been stealing stuff from quarters to sell on to other people, and sees Boomer dripping wet, and then marks her mirror up.

We could literally experience some huge time jump with the same players playing different roles
Is it bad that I'd like to see a future incarnation where Lee's in charge, and Bill's the one getting thrown in the brig? ;)

“Adama is a Cylon.” Unless Zak shows up, I’m assuming Leoben was just trying to unsettle Laura.
I think that's the way this will be spun now - at the time, I think it was simply another aspect of the writers making sure they left themselves loopholes to make anyone a hidden Cylon at some point in the future, if needed.
he was one of the existing Galactica pilots and could easily rack up several hundred landings in a year of regular duty. That's assuming the 1000th landing refers to landings in general, not combat landings of course...

Good point. I wasn't thinking about landings before the war, just combat landings since.

but then this is one of the reasons I also like Tigh, because he shows that he can be a good officer, when he's got his act together.

And I'll actually being addressing this in the next post. ;)

In the deleted scenes, it's shown to be Boxy; he's been stealing stuff from quarters to sell on to other people, and sees Boomer dripping wet, and then marks her mirror up.

I read this and went, "Deleted scene?" I'm not watching all the deleted scenes again, so I went back to some old posts and, for that episode, I noted there was only one deleted scene involving Tigh and Lee. Maybe it's not on the R1 set?

I'm glad that scene was cut. Boxy doing it doesn't make any sense.
An inherent problem with prequels is the actions of the characters won’t change anything.
And even more than that, none of the characters we care about will be in it - so there's no personal connection to what's going on. After the generally depressing nature of the BSG series to date, I'd rather watch a show that worked within the confines of the first Cylon war, simply because the end state then would at least have a certain short-term hope to it.

Laura was exchanging glances with Lee all through dinner. I’m just sayin’.
So how sure are you it was Ellen's foot? Just sayin'.

It’s been two years and I didn’t think she and Tigh were separated.
I'd just presumed that based on Tigh's attitude in the mini, they were seperated and that this was one of the things that had led to him binge-drinking, so I think I just hand-waved this as Ellen being ignorant of events. With hindsight... it feels more like a "we need a shock moment here, what can we use?" event.

Why did she survive the attacks?
I did wonder during the second season if some of the behaviour starting to crop up that seemed increasingly extreme was a result of survivors guilt being woven into the story. I can see someone settling on the idea that they have to have a destiny as a way of dealing with this.

None of the pilots have any and, on top of that, she was stuck on Galactica.
One of my issues with this ep is... where's Tigh? He is older than Adama, has served for longer, and has even more combat experience... and yet he's completely divorced from any of the mission planning. Why?

Sometimes *I* feel as if I’m the only one who has faith in him.
One of the things that always gets to me about this scene is that it highlights that Lee's already spotted that Kara is his father's favourite, something that Adama reinforces on a regular basis.

It’s the first time that Lee’s eyes are opened to what she is capable of doing to get her way.
I missed that completely - but now you've said it, it makes complete sense. I like how consistent they've kept this aspect of Laura's character, and how they've shown it to be a problem at times without making her universally wrong.

Thank you for putting this together; I was nodding along with a lot of it, and am impressed at the way you tease points to think about out of the show. And the way you seem to have issues with a number of the same things I do ;)

Edited at 2008-12-08 09:05 am (UTC)
So how sure are you it was Ellen's foot? Just sayin'.

As much as I'd like it to be Laura's foot, she was too far away. :(

I missed that completely - but now you've said it, it makes complete sense. I like how consistent they've kept this aspect of Laura's character, and how they've shown it to be a problem at times without making her universally wrong.

And Jamie does a great job with the moment. As soon as Laura tells him what she wants him to do with Zarek, he's focused completely on her with a slightly wide-eyed expression. It's a small moment here, but, when I get to 'Resurrection Ship' I think it will become a more significant moment.
Part 1!
This is a great read! I've been wanting to do my own rewatch but haven't due to a combination of other projects and also kind of wanting to wait until after 4.5 to watch the entire thing, so this is awesome.

I agree with an awful lot of your comments, though there are also a fair few that it didn't occur to me to question because my brain apparently made stuff up to explain them away. I shall now share this stuff!

How did Helo become separated from the survivors we saw him with in the mini?

Personally I assume that he fled an angry mob because he'd just shot one of said mob and prevented them all from escaping a nuclear wasteland on the raptor. I mean, I'd like to think people would be nicer and more understanding about that sort of thing, but also...they were a mob and Helo just doomed them to probably certain and slow death by radiation.

There's also the fact that Helo is actively running from the cylons and if he didn't flee the civilians, then I wouldn't be surprised if over the course of five days a combination of radiation sickness and general unfitness meant that the rest all got caught and Helo's the only one left from that group.

Baltar feels he’s being manipulated by Six, but is he playing the odds?

While I love HeadSix to pieces and wouldn't totally be against a revelation that she's real in some capacity, my assumption is, and has always been, that she's a part of Gaius' subconscious. He's a genius, but doesn't pay much attention, so I think a lot of information sits around in his subconscious and he knew Caprica for 2 years.

It’s called following orders.

Actually I think it's a little more complicated than that. While soldiers are legally bound to follow orders, they are just as legally bound to refuse illegal orders. I kind of thought Starbuck was worried they were about to execute an illegal order.

whereas the Leobens, D’Annas, Cavils, Simons, and Dorels seem to share the same personality.

There's an interesting bit in a deleted S4 scene where D'anna deduces that Faux!Athena has Athena's memories and comments that Eights don't automatically share memories on downloading, which suggests that some models do. This might account for Leoben's uniformity and the fact that numerous different versions of Leoben have all seem to remember Starbuck.

They had five nuclear warheads left. I haven’t been keeping track, do they have any left now?

I tried to for a while back in the day, but I can't recall now. And it's a moot point since we have no idea how many Pegasus had or how they redistributed them once that ship rejoined the Fleet.

It’s the 14th day and Flattop is having his 1000th landing. So soon?

I assumed that this was for all landings, not just combat landings and therefore included his pre-apocalypse landings? Otherwise presumably they'd all be hitting 1,000 roundabout now and the celebration wouldn't be anything like as much of a big deal?

But I agree, his death will never get easier. A really well done example of the "pointless tragedy" moment that so often comes across as gratuitous.

I love watching Laura make Lee and Adama feel about two inches tall.

ME TOO! In part because this is one of the only times in the entire series where anyone calls Adama on anything.

Is love blind? How could Helo and Tyrol not suspect the Sharons at this point?

For Tyrol I think it's fairly obvious that he's actually in conscious denial. I think he does know something's very, very wrong and is terrified of actually letting his mind go there and can't handle the implications so he ignores it and walks away, which is kind of selfish both re: helping Boomer and re: keeping everyone safe. But hey. DRAMA!

As to Helo, he's still working on the assumption that the Six Sharon killed was a human collaborator and has no idea that Cylons look like humans, so I give him much more of a pass on his suspicions.
Re: Part 1!
I plan to do another rewatch after the series ends, but I wanted to see if I could spot any clues as to how it might end before January. So far, not much luck. :/

There's also the fact that Helo is actively running from the cylons and if he didn't flee the civilians, then I wouldn't be surprised if over the course of five days a combination of radiation sickness and general unfitness meant that the rest all got caught and Helo's the only one left from that group.

I can accept that. Helo being Helo, I don't think he'd abandon the civilians and I feel some would understand why he shot that man and want the protection of the military man with the gun. It's better than nothing. But, you make a good point about the lack of radiation meds.

Actually I think it's a little more complicated than that. While soldiers are legally bound to follow orders, they are just as legally bound to refuse illegal orders. I kind of thought Starbuck was worried they were about to execute an illegal order.

I didn't get that sense from Kara. It was more, "OMG, we're about to kill innocent people!" And, at this point, Kara was still worshipful of Adama. He could do no wrong in her eyes so I can't imagine her thinking, "He's giving us an illegal order." She was already living with the guilt of Zak's death, I could see her not wanting this on her conscience as well.

There's an interesting bit in a deleted S4 scene where D'anna deduces that Faux!Athena has Athena's memories and comments that Eights don't automatically share memories on downloading, which suggests that some models do. This might account for Leoben's uniformity and the fact that numerous different versions of Leoben have all seem to remember Starbuck.

In KLG, Six remarks that Sharon's model is weak and always has been. Perhaps Eight is different. She seems to exert her will more than the other models. Eight and Six are the last two models of the original seven. Perhaps they were programmed a bit differently? Could their makers have been trying to improve the models or experiment by the time they got to them?

I assumed that this was for all landings, not just combat landings and therefore included his pre-apocalypse landings?

I didn't take into account the pre-apocalypse landings. D'Oh!
Part 2!
Whatever happened to Shelly Godfrey?

I assume she airlocked herself. They suspected she was a cylon immediately after that episode and knew for certain once the Pegasus joined the fleet. I really don't see how Shelly could have hidden herself in the Fleet and with her cover busted there's really no reason for her to do so.

And who wrote “Cylon” on Boomer’s mirror?

Setting aside the deleted scene, I always assumed she did it to herself. We know she's starting to suspect and is kind of trying to sabotage herself at the same time as protecting herself.

Unless Zak shows up, I’m assuming Leoben was just trying to unsettle Laura.

Me too and I like it better that way. Especially since Leoben doesn't know who the final cylon is, so even if he's right, it was inadvertant.

I still find it suspicious that Ellen was unconscious for three weeks and has no memory of what happened to her. I find it equally hard to believe she’d be the last Cylon.

Yeah, ditto. But I can think of a fair number of reasons Ellen wouldn't want to admit what really happened. "Oh yes, Saul, my latest lover took me up in his jet," or "Yes Saul, I got a seat on the last shuttle because I was sleeping with the pilot," or something, considering she's trying to pretend like it's a big fresh start so she can be the wife of the second-in-command of the whole fleet.

How did Ellen not know about Zak?

I wondered about that at the time. I make my peace with it by assuming that Ellen's just that ridiculously self-centred that she couldn't be bothered to remember.

“Don’t frak it up by over-thinking”, is not the best pep talk.

No, but it's very Starbuck. i.e. insensitive. ;)

I don’t believe Starbuck could do better, Lee! Sometimes *I* feel as if I’m the only one who has faith in him.

You, me and LAURA.

Whatever happened to Wallace Grey?

I occasionally wonder that. I've decided that he's dead by now. But whether he killed himself (because srsly, there must be a damn high suicide rate in the Fleet) because that would be, not ironic, but something, or died on New Caprica, or just in one of the many attacks on the Fleet, I'm not sure. It would be nice to get a reference to him, though.

Assuming Zerek is telling the truth, who killed Valance?

YES! I still want to know the answer to that!

Until the start of season three I believed Zarek. But lately I've started thinking it was him after all. I don't know.

I find it hard to get a handle on Zarek too. He's played as a fallen idealist, but then he'll do things that just seem violent and power hungry. Blah.

Laura informs Lee she won’t send the Sagittarian delegation back to their ships because it would be in violation of their civil rights. Yet, she instructs Lee to bug Zarek’s quarters, tap his phone, and “shut him down”.

That does make me wonder how the privacy laws in the Fleet stack up with ours. Unless she's only worried about violating the civil rights of the entire Saggitaron delegation, but not worried about violating Zarek's rights?

And...I think I'm done. HOO BOY! But yes, thanks again for a great read!

ETA: Knew I'd forget something! Baltar being made a quorum delegate right after the Shelley Godfrey thing doesn't actually bother me that much. Mainly because HeadSix is right. He came out of that looking really good: looking like the heroic martyr who got framed because his work was so important. If the events weren't classified and contained to Galactica that is, which I imagine they would have been given how sensitive they were at the time.

Edited at 2008-12-08 03:07 pm (UTC)
Re: Part 2!
Especially since Leoben doesn't know who the final cylon is, so even if he's right, it was inadvertant.

But it would be hilarious to see him go, "Wow. Good guess on my part!" ;)

I make my peace with it by assuming that Ellen's just that ridiculously self-centred that she couldn't be bothered to remember.

Well, that would work. As would she was too drunk to remember.

I couldn't see Wallace killing himself, but he could have died on Cloud Nine.

I find it hard to get a handle on Zarek too. He's played as a fallen idealist, but then he'll do things that just seem violent and power hungry.

And in the 'Home' episodes he's plotting to kill Lee, leave Laura with no allies, and take over what they have of the fleet. This is what *he* desires, not what is best for the people.

Unless she's only worried about violating the civil rights of the entire Saggitaron delegation, but not worried about violating Zarek's rights?

I think that's the point. She was worried about protecting the people's rights, but Zarek is threatening her position and what she sees as the best interests of the fleet. It goes hand in hand with not desiring to suppress religious freedom, but wanting to silence Baltar in Season 4.

And Baltar being made Quorum delegate doesn't bother me. It's just this time around I'm seeing how it's another instance of 'forgive and forget' that ties into Lee's speech in 'Crossroads'.
i always thought ellen was having a jolly good time somewhere in the fleet and only turned up on saul's metaphorical doorstep once that particular set-up didn't work for her anymore. i have no evidence of this, by the way. ;)

you know what i always found interesting? that laura saw leoben BEFORE she had the cylon baby treatment. the latter might account for her visions of the opera house, but why did she see leoben? the snakes can be explained away by the chamalla use, but leoben? not really...
Laura definitely has some connection to the Cylons, but, assuming she's not the final Cylon, I'm still not sure what that connection is. And the three she's seen in her dreams are the three that chose to join forces with the fleet.

Edited at 2008-12-09 04:21 am (UTC)
i don't think she's the final cylon either, (although i'd like her to be), and i too believe she has some sort of connection to them aside the cylon blood thingie, but, sadly, i have no idea what that might be.

my best bet thus far: she's god, and baltar was right about god forgiving him, because she did spare his life in the hub. sadly, she does not love him, so he's frakked. :D
Supposedly, Ron and David didn’t decide who the final five would be until Season 3, but, in addition to Boomer, Tyrol and Tigh seem to be fairing better than the rest of the crew without sleep.

I love it when things like that accidentally work out.

With his inability to separate the personal from the professional, coupled with viewing his crew as family, I see why Adama didn’t rise above the rank of commander and remained stuck on Galactica. He’s smart and has a good military mind, but he too often allows personal feelings to dictate his decisions.

I will say this: as crazymaking as I find that flaw of Adama's, it's been a consistent part of his characterization from the very beginning. One of the litmus tests for episodes in the show, in general, is whether the writers treat that aspect of his character as a problem or a virtue--I tend to find that the latter is a sign of a crappy episode.

And who wrote “Cylon” on Boomer’s mirror? Shelly?

I always thought it was Boomer herself.
One of the litmus tests for episodes in the show, in general, is whether the writers treat that aspect of his character as a problem or a virtue--I tend to find that the latter is a sign of a crappy episode.

Hmmmm, that is interesting. I've immensely enjoyed it when Adama is called on his behavior, like Laura reading he and Lee the riot act in YCGHA, but I haven't thought about how his behavior being treated as a virtue affects my view of an entire episode. I'll have to keep this in mind as I continue my rewatch.
I haven't thought about how his behavior being treated as a virtue affects my view of an entire episode.

I think for me, it's partly that it affects my view of the episode, but partly it's usually just the biggest, most obvious sign that the characterization in the whole episode is off.