Asta 2

'No Exit' - First Reaction

Does O_o count as giving away too much? I'll have a lot more to say later, but there's a few things I feel I have to say right now.



First off, beccatoria is either psychic or a genius or a genius psychic. Her fic, The Body is a Myth covered a tremendous amount of territory that was covered in this episode. Including, Kara's father was a Cylon! I don't know whether to be pissed at Ron for making us believe there were only twelve and Ellen was the final reveal or applaud him for managing to surprise us still with a thirteenth Cylon. At the very least, we now have a reason the number 7 was skipped. An entire line (accept for perhaps one that got away and is in hiding, maybe) was boxed before D'Anna.

I think once I watch the episode again...and again...and again...what Sam is revealing will make sense. But it was far too much to absorb in an hour. And while I'd like to blame SciFi for cutting the run of the series short and forcing Ron to make Sam the King of Dizzying Exposition, I'm more inclined to blame Ron. He's admitted to making a lot of this up as he went along, which I'm OK with, but he also wasted precious time on subplots that went no where and Quadrangles of Doom when he could have been providing a hell of a lot of pivotal information more slowly and coherently. I mean, Sam has to have severe brain trauma before we know what is going on?

I loved the Lee/Laura seen (I know, you're shocked), even though it was completely out of place in this episode. It was all I could hope for between them. It worked on so many levels. And who was the brilliant person on my Flist or commenter on my Flist who talked about the Quorum no longer making sense because the Colonies are gone, how they are one fleet now, and the people should be represented by the ships they live on? Lee Adama was channeling you!

That Ellen Tigh is, in essence, the Cylon god cracks me up to no end. She's the genius among them. HA!

On the flip side of this reveal, I now have to live with the knowledge that Cavil knowingly frakked his mother. Ewwwwww. When I rewatch the series again I'm going to have to keep in mind that Cavil knew everything. I also have a better grasp on his bitterness.

Tigh and Caprica are now shacked up. That was actually a sweet scene between the two. And Tigh gave up drinking for her! Now Ellen is going to return to mess up their domestic bliss. :(

And as Tigh gives up drinking, Adama is shooting back drinks and popping pills. I kind of am enjoying seeing him destroyed by having to agree to allow his ship to be Cylonized or else loose it.

A brain surgeon survived the apocalypse. How convenient! And he's a PC! Now I shall wait for the jokes about how if he was a Mac, Sam wouldn't be brain dead...or is he. Maybe Ellen can cure him.

By the way, Ishay, that was cold. I guess she really hates the Cylons. I sense she may cause problems for her husband the president in waiting.

OK, as usual, this was longer than I thought. I will have more later after a second viewing.
  • Current Mood: surprised surprised
And who was the brilliant person on my Flist or commenter on my Flist who talked about the Quorum no longer making sense because the Colonies are gone, how they are one fleet now, and the people should be represented by the ships they live on? Lee Adama was channeling you!

I know I've said it several times in the past and would love to take credit here... but then I'm pretty sure I've seen MANY friends say the same thing. ;)

I now have to live with the knowledge that Cavil knowingly frakked his mother. Ewwwwww.

YES. Gah. I can only hope that Ellen didn't know it was him... but I doubt it. Ewwwwww.

By the way, Ishay, that was cold.

Agreed. Though I also kinda like that they took this road with her, given that fandom always perceived Ishay as a benevolent everywoman figure in Sick Bay.

That Ellen Tigh is, in essence, the Cylon god cracks me up to no end. She's the genius among them. HA!

The best (if plot-device-y) kind of character redemption, no? :)
And who was the brilliant person on my Flist or commenter on my Flist who talked about the Quorum no longer making sense because the Colonies are gone, how they are one fleet now, and the people should be represented by the ships they live on? Lee Adama was channeling you!

I said that last week too! I will fight you for credit, Wisteria! :) You're right I saw other people make the same observation. Such geniuses we all are!
Heh. Maybe I didn't know who to credit because I saw several people mention it. ;)

I can only hope that Ellen didn't know it was him

I don't think she did. She seemed very disoriented when she awoke in the goo. But you would think she'd have been horrified as her memories returned.

And not only did Cavil sleep with his mother, he slept with his sort of daughter, Boomer. Cavil just doesn't have rage issues. ::shudders::

I love that fandom has a view of Ishay given how little we've seen of her. Then again, I have this whole Narcho thing going on and his role has only been slightly larger.
Ok, I read "Kara's father was a Cylon!" and decided I'd better watch the ep before I read reviews!

Back later...
I agree about Ishay - I think she was particularly harsh. I hope even just one line is spent explaining why she seems to hate them so much still.
I don't think this is much of a spoiler, but Jamie, in an interview, said Kerry would be appearing in four of the final ten episodes. This was only the second time we've seen her. So I'm hoping Ishay will get a scene where she gets to explain her feelings. It's not as if she doesn't have reasons to hate the Cylons, but her hatred wasn't so great that she took part in the mutiny.
You know, when I was watching the scene with the Red Shirt of Hotness, I kept thinking, "You know, Asta is giving Lee an Oedipus conflict as we speak!" It must tickle you knowing how many people instantly think of you the second your ship is on screen together ;)

That said, yeah, that scene was totally out of place in this episode. There was so bloody much exposition my head is still spinning! About the only meta I've been able to eek out from this so far has been its overt tribute to Sartre's most famous existential play down to the title they share.
I kept thinking, "You know, Asta is giving Lee an Oedipus conflict as we speak!" It must tickle you knowing how many people instantly think of you the second your ship is on screen together ;)

Hee. Yeah, I guess I'm the BNF of Lee/Laura fandom. ;) And considering how many ways people could think of me, I'll take this way!
Hi, I'm new to LJ, but have been kinda lurking on bamber_news for a while!
I figured, i'd just jump in and let you know that I too love the Lee/Laura interactions (pretty much all of them). In my mind she totally has the hots for him and had to make do with papadama, because she's dying and lee was moving too slow!

On to the episode:

Tigh and Caprica are now shacked up. That was actually a sweet scene between the two. And Tigh gave up drinking for her!

I still don't quite understand how they got there, every interaction between them in S4.0. was full of violence, desperation and confusion and now they're all in love and sweet about it. I know capricasix wanted to have a child, but that doesn't explain why they're being all lovey dovey, I feel like they jumped over a few steps in between.

And who was the brilliant person on my Flist or commenter on my Flist who talked about the Quorum no longer making sense because the Colonies are gone, how they are one fleet now, and the people should be represented by the ships they live on? Lee Adama was channeling you!

I remeber listening to an interview with Jamie, in which he brought this up, but totally made it sound like he suggested it to the writers, but they didn't put it in the show, or was that just my impression? I'm glad they went for it though, it's a totally valid point!

By the way, Ishay, that was cold. I guess she really hates the Cylons. I sense she may cause problems for her husband the president in waiting.

I must have some lingering resentments against the cylons , because I really enjoyed that scene! (although I really don't mind the final five)
For some reason I really hope she gets a scene or two with the hubby, maybe even a confrontational one, can't say why, but I'd like to see them on camera together (and I don't mean that in any dirty kind of way ;) )
Welcome! I love hearing from fellow Lee/Laura fans. And it's so great to see support for the ship again. Season 4 has given us some great scenes after a long dry spell.

In my mind she totally has the hots for him and had to make do with papadama, because she's dying and lee was moving too slow!

I like your thinking! And even though I know she's very ill now, during that scene, I was thinking, "Go on! Hug her!" He certainly looked like he wanted to.

I know capricasix wanted to have a child, but that doesn't explain why they're being all lovey dovey, I feel like they jumped over a few steps in between.

I agree with you. I can rationalize the relationship, but I do feel it suffered as Lee/Dee did with not having seen much of it develop onscreen. I actually feel that Caprica could do better than Tigh, but that Tigh is better for her than Baltar. She loved Baltar and he might have loved her, but he had a funny way of showing it with the infidelity and shutting her out emotionally.

And Tigh and Caprica were brought together by this child, but they both seem to want a family and are trying to build something together. I don't feel she loves Tigh like she did Baltar or that Tigh loves her as he did Ellen, but this relationship lacks the drama of the others and I think that's something they both need at this time. I can also see Caprica making an extra effort because Tigh gave her something she so very much wanted. So, while the relationship started in a place of anger and violence, they do seem to have moved far beyond that.

I think you're right about Jamie mentioning it. Or at least that he felt it didn't make sense for the members of the fleet to identify themselves by colonies that no longer exist and that they needed to reevaluate the system of government.

For some reason I really hope she gets a scene or two with the hubby, maybe even a confrontational one, can't say why, but I'd like to see them on camera together (and I don't mean that in any dirty kind of way ;) )

Well, I've told beccatoria, if they have a flash forward at the end, I wouldn't mind finding out Lee married Ishay. But that's probably too much of an in-joke. ;)
While I'd love to claim psychic genius credit, I don't think I can declare victory yet - we have no evidence that "Daniel" is Kara's father and I didn't get that name for him from canon. I feel quite guilty that I think a lot of people think I picked that name up from an obscure reference somewhere and thought this was a bigger clue than it was?

Obviously I still really hope that I'll turn out to be right. ;)

And I was megapleased that a lot of the Final Five plot was...not in any way like mine in terms of detail, but in terms of broad plot - the Five fleeing their own destruction to warn the Colonies and ending up helping with the building of the humanoid models in the hopes that they can teach them not to repeat history.

But yeah. I kind of loved this episode.

I am still a little worried about Laura's trajectory, but less so given the way it was contextualised - which I felt was more about her dying than being selfish. I still find the timing problematic: metatextually it suggests that now she has a MAN she doesn't need a JOB but the fact it didn't textually suggest that goes a long way. Even though I wish her awesome was as...assertive as it used to be.

I was surprised that I wasn't confused by Sam's exposition infection, but I can see how many would be. And I definitely need to watch it again.

I am just...awed by what they've done with Cavil, to be honest. I never thought they could take him in an interesting direction and even though what they did to him was kind of...obvious in a lot of ways and really just a rehash of who he was already, they did it so well and with such shocking blatantness that I'm just...there. I buy it. I love it. The dude is awesome now. EVIL. But awesome.

Similarly, the whole "OMG GALACTICA MUST HYBRIDISE HERSELF TO SURVIVE," was anvilicious, but I really bought it. Sometimes obvious metaphors are necessary and effective.

I was a little confused at the Ishay thing, actually. I know that Cottle said they were going to hook up the EEG(?) to see what was going on with Sam's brain, but it seems odd that Cottle or the Brain Surgeon wasn't there for the initial results (or that Kara wasn't), and that they just left it to the Nurse to break that to her?

I know nothing about brain injuries or comas so I'm probably wrong, but is it possible that his brain shutting down isn't necessarily a sign that that'll be permanent, and Ishay is just...being cruel? Like I know that people can be in comas for up to four weeks before they generally either wake up or go vegetative long-term and suffer long-term damage, but what I'm not sure of is how much brain activity there is at that point.

The only person I know who was in a coma for any length of time (about a month) said she had crazy vivid dreams so that would suggest lots of brain activity though. :/
I still think there is a good chance you might be right. I've been thinking about other discussions we've had recently and one or two possible scenarios involving Daniel returning. But I don't want to get into that here. ;)

metatextually it suggests that now she has a MAN she doesn't need a JOB but the fact it didn't textually suggest that goes a long way.

The consensus seems to be that her stepping aside had nothing to do with Adama (Thank Gods!) and everything to do with her health. With her steadying herself and coughing, they went out of their way to show she was becoming weaker. :(

On the plus side, I loved the fact that she was spending this time with Lee while Adama was left to deal with his ship falling apart around him with only a bottle of booze and pills to keep him company. :)

I don't think it was odd that Ishay was left alone to hook up the machine, especially since they established that there were a lot of people in need of medical attention. But I think Cottle will be pissed when he finds out she blurted out what she saw like that.

You can tell fairly soon after brain trauma if someone is brain dead and there was almost no brain activity on that EEG. However, Sam is a Cylon. It's possible that machine can't read his brain like it would read a human brain or that his brain has an ability to heal itself in ways ours can't. I also suspect Ellen may have some knowledge to restore higher brain functions. Did you ever think we'd be this worried about Sam???
No! I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD BE!

Even when I had convinced myself he was definitely going to die, I was sad but not this sad.

Mainly I'm clinging to hope because it's such an undramatic and anti-climactic way to go.

SAVE US, ELLEN, YOU'RE OUR ONLY HOPE! <--- something else I never thought I'd hear myself say. o_O
It was all I could hope for between them. It worked on so many levels.

I thought of you when I was watching that scene. I'm so glad you liked it. :)