Asta 2

It's Baaaaaack! BSG Commentary Recapping

It's been awhile, my friends. The skills were a bit rusty. But I've managed to listen to Ron's podcast Jane and Eddie's DVD commentary so you don't have to. To be honest, it wasn't nearly as painful as I feared it would be. Eddie barely spoke! I know! I'm shocked too! I actually felt a bit sorry for Jane. It's clear she didn't think she would be doing most of the talking. By the midway point there were long silences she tried to fill by asking Eddie questions and attempting to get him to speak, with no luck. When he did talk it was mostly to say how "terrific", "fantastic" and "great" the cast and crew were. While it was nice of him to bestow so many compliments on the people he worked with, it makes for a boring commentary track.

So, there is not a lot of revealing information to share.....although there was a small highlight for the Sam/Jean shippers. I had no idea there were Sam/Jean shippers until recently. As a Lee/Sonja shipper, I feel we obscure shippers need to stick together. ;)


Rather than have Dean Stockwell talk to air or a random crew member during the scenes in which Cavil is talking with Cavil, Eddie cast the role of Cavil's double.

Jane reminisced about how hard they worked to get the old and new footage to match. There were even discussions about matching Caprica's lipstick shade. And Eddie made an effort to get the original hairdresser so Caprica's hair would match. (I found this somewhat humorous since Tricia switched to a wig years ago.)

Cavil to Ellen: "I'm a mysterious stranger." Jane included that line because in the series Ellen described being rescued by a mysterious stranger.

The rubble Ellen and Cavil were buried under was the remnants of Galactica's hanger deck after it was torn down. Technically, bulldozed. Eddie described it as the saddest thing he had ever gone through. (I assume he meant on set.)

Jane: "Baby Tyrol. Looking so young." Hee.

The very last raptor was painted ambulance colors to make it into a rescue vehicle.

During the scene in which Anders and the others are looking down from the bridge to where the Centurions are gathering their fallen comrades, they debated having a moment where Anders goes face to face with the raider that takes off and flies by them and have it recognize him. (If the raider had pegged him as one of the Five back on Caprica, wouldn't that have negated a lot of future events?)

Sidenote: I assumed the Centurions were picking up parts of other Centurions in order to recycle the parts. But if they really were trying to 'save' their comrades, they're more sentient then I gave them credit for.

If you had any doubt, yes, Baltar did leave the note for Adama.

Jane commented she really liked how they slowed down the footage going into act breaks because it felt like closing a chapter.

It was difficult keeping track of how many days after the attacks events took place. They tore their hair out getting the numbers right.

There are still lots of questions left unanswered about the creation of the Cylons that weren't relevant to story, but may get answered in Caprica. Jane thinks they hit the big loose ends of the show such as who was Six talking to on Caprica and who left the note? She didn't feel like they left anything big hanging. Eddie felt very complete at the end. (Huh? I guess the series completes him. :p)

Jane: One Cavil is desperately trying to seek the love of his parents; the other is desperately trying to kill the last few humans. One Cavil realizes that the love of humanity is sort of the key to why Cavil will never win; the other Cavil is not realizing it.

Matthew Bennett (Doral) ad libbed all sorts of stuff on the set. There was a moment between Doral and Shelley where Shelley explained that if they blow up they will download and it will be OK. Doral's response was, "But I made this suit." It was totally right for Doral.

"Let's get this genocide started." Jane realized it was a dicey joke, but it plays to Cavil's character. He's hard and loveless and devoid of humanity, but he's also someone who can joke in the darkest moments and that is a gift to a writer.

The train wreck was already there for them to use. It was a training center for rescue personal.

Jane was glad she could give Jean stuff to do and felt the actress was excellent. You were able to get this whole sense of the relationship Jean and Anders had had. And I must quote Jane here, "At least I did. Maybe I was writing in my head." ;-)

Anders was not afraid to be scared. He was not always the fearless rebel leader, but scared like any person would be.

There was a moment cut after Doral sees the explosive vest. He looks at it askance and Cavil says, "Well, you could paint it teal."

The Leoben story was hard to do. Part of the difficulty was they were stuck with events that happened on Galactica. They had to construct a story that would slot into and not after places he was already dead.

When they were casting the boy, they had a picture of Dean Stockwell from The Boy with the Green Hair. Eddie thought it would be neat if the boy looked like a young Dean. Wardrobe even copied Dean's outfit form the movie. If you notice (I didn't), the kid has jeans, which broke a long standing rule on BSG - no blue jeans.

There were a few references to Lymari Nadel - her fantastic performance, how she came up with the lines, "I hate this jumpsuit. Everyone is doing what they can.", and Eddie bringing her ideas to Jane - yet neither ever made a reference to Lymari being Eddie's wife. Weird!

The Boomer/Six scene was an unused scene from the finale.

The Cybel was a new ship introduced. Jane seemed excited she got to introduce a ship.

In the pit of bodies, those were all real people being burned. WTF?

After Cybel Simon (or Gianna's Simon or I Love Humans Simon) tells Cavil it was hard for him to get away to meet him, Cavil comments that it's also been hard for D'Anna to get away. They wanted to explain that Cavil was aware of D'Anna's presence, but he let her go off and do her own thing. It was a way to explain Lucy's unavailability.

The Plan was for everyone to die and when it didn't happen it was all improv after that. O.....K.....

Leoben is listening to a recording rather than the wireless because Kara was in the infirmary with busted knee at that point in time. They needed to find a way that he could be listening to her.

Jane found it funny that the spiritual center of the ship turned out to be Cavil's lair. They already knew he was working as a priest on Galactica; they just needed to give him a chapel.

The kiss between Cavil and Boomer is where their relationship starts. (Everyone, EWWWWWW.)

The film answers questions you didn't know you had. (In my opinion, not really.)

The downfall of the entire existence of Cylons was the one thing they weren't ready for - love.

Cavil hoped to hear from Anders, one of his parents, absolution and that they had learned their lesson. He's hanging on to that.

Sidenote: It struck me as I rewatched that Simon and Cavil on Caprica were the opposite of their counterparts on Galactica. On Caprica, Simon wants to put an end to the charade and kill the humans while Cavil wants to keep them alive for his own benefit. While on Galactica, Simon and Cavil have the exact opposite desires. How might things may have been different if the Cavils had switched places and met up with the other Simons?

Jane stated the lone naked male pilot was an effort to get a penis on film so it wouldn't be unfair. In her opinion, it wasn't fair to include all naked women and no naked men. Interestingly, they cast a shy actor and it was difficult to get a, er, small piece of footage. ;) Eddie chimed in with "You girls are funny about that." Then he proceeded to explain how the show is not about sexuality. People had to realize sexuality became something else (?) and there is no nudity taboo or gender inequality. (I know some who would debate that issue.) It is only true to the story to have equivalence in footage...and from there I got really confused by what he was attempting to say.

There was talk of doing three movies. Verheiden would write the first, Weddle and Thompson the second and Jane the third. When the other writers were hired on to other shows, the film fell to her.

Jane mentioned flash-forwarding to all the Kara/Leoben moments that hadn't happened yet, but didn't explain what it meant. :(

The final exchange between Cavil and Simon was much longer. Simon came in and started talking about his medical team being called to Galactica after Adama's shooting. They decided just to cut right to Simon telling Cavil that if Adama wasn't dead, he was dying.

Cavil's, "Where'd the bottle go?" was a Dean ad-lib.

There was a long subplot (really long - it's one of the deleted scenes described below) in which Caprica Cavil went away, met up with other Cylons, came back to the camp with Centurions and devastated part of the group.


For those who haven't purchased, rented or acquired the bonus material for The Plan, here is a run down of the deleted scenes.


There was more of the C-Bucs training prior to attacks.

There was also more of Ellen and Cavil on Picon. She comments that "the rents are cheap and so's my husband. Technically still my husband." She goes on to say Tigh knows what is right and wrong for the entire universe; Cavil talks of justice. Ellen says, "You're just like him", which gets quite the reaction from Cavil. There's additional talk of not learning lessons and right after the first bomb hits, Ellen asks what's happening. Cavil says, "Whatever it was I'm starting to think it was a bit premature."

There's a brief clip of Anders walking towards a cliff and looking at a devastated coastline...so the writing on the screen tells us. Then he turns around and says, to no one, “I'm so sorry.” I think he was running away!

Random shot of Boomer thinking about Tyrol after visiting Cavil. Not sure why they bothered to include it.

We see Jean track down Anders right before they discover the pit. Jean says, "I woke up and you were gone." What?! Well, that raises some interesting questions. He asks how she found him; she says "you're not all that hard to follow T". She then asks where he's going and he comes up with he thought maybe there were more survivors.

More Cavil and Boomer. Boomer states "He believes in me." Whether he means Tyrol or Adama, I'm not sure. Cavil says reaching for the explosives would have taken her home. But, forget about it, he still needs her for something special.

Finally, there is the long scene involving Cavil and Anders. It begins with Anders recounting to Jean what he witnessed in 'Downloaded'. He's convinced the Cylons aren't unified anymore. He's talks about Boomer and Caprica. He tells Jean he should have been down in the city spying the whole time. Jean says why not now, but Anders says it's too late, they've lost too many people. Jean mentions Kara.

Cavil shows up and Anders is glad to see him. Cavil tells him and the others who have gathered that he believes the Cylons needed a messenger. He was tortured for answers, but then things started to change. A few Cylons started to think differently. The ones known as the war heroes. He tells them a story of people thriving on Picon. And maybe the Cylons learned they made a mistake. Killing humans wasn't a way to get what they wanted. They now see to get understanding and not just revenge they have to show mercy. Anders points out that before the Cylons grabbed Cavil, he was already defending them. Cavil asks if Anders thinks he's a collaborator? Then he asks Anders if he is sick. Anders explains they killed Simon, but not before he had contaminated their anti-radiation meds. Cavil states he's not his enemy, but his friend and he knows it. If you reach out to the Cylons, they'll reach out to you.

Then they cut to a sizable part of the group walking towards the gate outside the camp. Boomer and Caprica (on crutches!) are walking towards the camp and are all smiles. They tell them to follow them; the truce begins here. Anders, Jean, Cavil and others are some ways away watching all this. Jean calls the group going with them idiots. The wording on the screen tells us Centurions are approaching and they open fire. Boomer and Caprica are devastated and fall to the ground, crying.
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Everything you said here. Also, icon love!

I guess it also only existed in my head. I know they had limitations based on which actors were actually IN IT but just admit that. Acting like who gave Adama the note is the biggest unanswered question is ridiculously insulting.
I think we all stopped thinking about the note three seasons ago. And as soon as they established Cavil as THE Cylon behind everything I figured out he was the one who spoke with Caprica on Caprica. At this point, most of the big unanswered questions are from the final season and they couldn't get any of those actors back to help answer them.

You can't have your cake and eat it too: exploiting cultural context (watch our show! we have naked women!) while also ignoring it (but it's not sexist because they're all ~equal~ here!) is annoying.

I tried listening to his comments twice to make sense of them and had to give up. If the film had *a* butt shot or *a* glimpse of a breast, I would have been fine with it. I would have felt as if the camera just happened to catch that moment rather than being focused on it. But we had a topless waitress walking towards the camera. We had nearly everyone in the Galactica bathroom walking around naked. We had Gianna writhing on Simon, with closeups on body parts. And Jane had to argue for a brief bit of male nudity?

The series showed long ago that gender and sexuality are not the issues in Colonial society they are in ours. Merely having co-ed quarters and bathrooms helped prove that. This was a director showing T&A just because he could and getting his rocks off in the process. It wasn't relevant at all to the story and, in fact, distracted from it.
I had no idea there were Sam/Jean shippers until recently.
They're both very pretty and I like them! :-) Not that I actually think about them most of the time, though...

If you had any doubt, yes, Baltar did leave the note for Adama.
Hah. I knew that's what it was supposed to mean, but that wasn't exactly clear. But without Callis, I guess they had to do the best they could.

Then he proceeded to explain how the show is not about sexuality. People had to realize sexuality became something else (?) and there is no nudity taboo or gender inequality. (I know some who would debate that issue.) It is only true to the story to have equivalence in footage...and from there I got really confused by what he was attempting to say.

And this is why I didn't listen to the commentary while I had the disk from Netflix. *sigh* Oh, dear.

Jane mentioned flash-forwarding to all the Kara/Leoben moments that hadn't happened yet, but didn't explain what it meant. :(

The scene during the interrogation when he has his fingers around her neck? It's supposed to be a vision he has, right?
Yes. It's not clear how/why that happened. I decided that goddess!Aurora!Kara was cluing him in.

Makes as much sense as anything else.
I'm actually thinking about Sam/Jean more now! ;)

Everyone seems to be assuming Leoben had a vision and Jane seems to be stating one or both are seeing things that have yet to happen, but she fails to mention why? It's bad enough it's unclear in the film what is going on, but she had the opportunity to clarify and didn't say anything. Much like killing off Kara, did they simply think it was a cool idea and didn't bother to consider the implications?

Edited at 2009-11-03 04:47 am (UTC)
I only listened to half the commentary so far so thank you. After Eddie explained how we "girls" are funny about the wacky sexism I just lost the wind.

I did note that all the time they mentioned Lymari not one word about her being Mrs Eddie.

I wanted a Weddle and Thompson movie. Go Sam/Jean! Although I think they likely had a close friendship akin to Helo/Kara. Which doesn't preclude past frakking.

Dammit, now I am sad about how the show so underused her and her pointless death.
Ron always mentioned familial relationships in the podcasts, so it struck me as very strange there was no mention of Lymari being Mrs Eddie.

I'm not sure there was anything going on between Sam and Jean during the film, but, yeah, I think there was a romantic relationship at some point during their lives. And I would have enjoyed seeing more of their friendship on the series.
Thanks for doing this so we don't have to. :-) It sounds very confusing so, yeah. What a weird project.

And I'm a Jean/Sam shipper! I ship lotsa people and they are way down the list, but they're there. :-)
I may have to add Jean and Sam to my list. They're no Lee and Sonja, but still intriguing. ;)

The film was sort of confusing so I guess it's appropriate that the commentary was too. I wish they had gotten Trucco and some of the actors to share their thoughts. Why is it we so rarely get to hear the actors talk about what was going through their heads during filming?
I may have to add Jean and Sam to my list. They're no Lee and Sonja, but still intriguing. ;)
Yay, another one! I do appreciate the Plan bringing out other Jean/Sam shippers! Or creating them. :-)

Why is it we so rarely get to hear the actors talk about what was going through their heads during filming?
I would have loved to have heard Dean Stockwell talk about Cavil. I have always enjoyed his performance in this role.
Thank you!!!

The rubble Ellen and Cavil were buried under was the remnants of Galactica's hanger deck after it was torn down.
...wow, that knowledge makes me ridiculously sad.

She didn't feel like they left anything big hanging.
*DIES LAUGHING*

Doral's response was, "But I made this suit."
I love Matthew Bennet so hard right now.

In the pit of bodies, those were all real people being burned. WTF?
Stuntmen! I figured, 'cause they looked better than any other special effect in the movie.

Stuntmen! I figured, 'cause they looked better than any other special effect in the movie.

LMAO!

I had pegged Doral as frustrated middle management, but now it seems he was a frustrated designer. I'm imagining him running sweat shops on New Caprica. Watch your stitching or face a death squad!
De-lurking to say: now it seems he was a frustrated designer. I'm imagining him running sweat shops on New Caprica. <- Somebody really, really needs to write that.
Thanks, as always, for doing this! I'm more than slightly shocked that EJO didn't monopolise discussion! But I guess at least it meant you didn't have to listen to two hours of lecturing about how Israel and Palestine would have NO MORE WORRIES if they just watched the show... *facepalm*

Suffice to say, while I quite enjoyed the movie, you already know I agree with you (and countless others it seems) that, well, it didn't actually answer anything we didn't already know. You said it well in a response upthread; the unanswered questions are all from season 4 by now.

I'm especially grateful for the rundown of the deleted scenes. There is STILL no official UK release date for the thing. Which, just, ARGH! I NEED TO COMPLETE MY COLLECTION! /completist temper tantrum.

Plus I <3 deleted scenes.

In general they sound pretty interesting, actually. Although not criminal to have cut. The extra stuff with Sam running away is interesting, but since we get the story anyway, and this movie has an abundance of retelling stories we've already seen.

The comment from Jean about him not being there when she woke up is definitely interesting and I can see the appeal of shipping them, but honestly, my first thought is that they have a Kara/Helo type relationship (though as greycoupon notes, this does not preclude past liaisons!) and that she was commenting on noticing because they might all be sleeping together in a dorm-type set up for safety (though this does go against the fact that Sam had his own room once Kara arrived, but I'm not sure where they were based at this point).

I certainly don't think that they were an item when Kara showed up as Sam wouldn't have gone for her if that were the case and in some ways it's kind of sad to think of them breaking up or Jean watching Sam find someone else if they were half-an-item or something, in the middle of so much devastation. *snuffle* Nope, Kara/Helo-style BFFs for me!

I like that we find out what happened to Caprica!Simon too - that's a good ending for him - he finally got pissed at Cavil and just started trying to kill them all first anyway. I'd be surprised if he didn't get outed after Kara's rescue since a Simon walked right out in front of that hospital and got gunned down in front of Sam.

I also like the idea of Cavil manipulating the stories of the War Heroes for his own gain, while still, possibly, getting seduced by them in some ways himself.

I'm terribly confused, however, at the notion of Boomer and Caprica (post-Downloaded it seems) trying to welcome the resistance only to be devastated when they get gunned down. That's like...totally against what was going on at that point, isn't it? Even on New Caprica when things weren't exactly going as they planned due to the other Cylon not "getting it", they weren't gunning them down in the street. Plus this would have been before the sudden truce in LDYB? I suppose this does explain why there are so few of the resistance left IN LDYB, but...bzuh?

Only explanation I can think of is that Boomer and Caprica's revolution took a while to take hold and at first there were some misfires (err, no pun intended).

Final thought about the Centurions - I had assumed they were scrounging for spare parts too, but at the same time, perhaps it's interesting to consider their motivation, yes. It could simply be mechanical, that if this centurion isn't beyond saving then it is a valuable asset. But equally there could be a genuine desire to save the centurion out of a species-wide desire to survive. The fact that the centurions themselves believed in God when the Five arrived and were trying to evolve suggests a high level of sentience, even if fairly crudely applied in places. But of course the telencephalic inhibitors that the Five? Seven? Cavil? later gave them to ensure they didn't rebel or hurt any of the humanoid models may have cut down on that sentience - or rather their ability to access it - quite severely. It's a shame the show didn't do more with that really...it's a real *gasp* UNANSWERED QUESTION! :p
she was commenting on noticing because they might all be sleeping together in a dorm-type set up for safety (though this does go against the fact that Sam had his own room once Kara arrived, but I'm not sure where they were based at this point).

It's likely that there were dorm like sleeping arrangements. The space alone might not determine that. It might be safer for them to all sleep together, so to speak. It's also possible the room Sam was sleeping in with Kara was not his, but a room where people went to for some private time?

Neither the film nor the deleted scenes give me the impression that Sam was involved with Jean and dumped her the moment Kara arrived. Besides, I just can't picture Sam as being that guy. But if Jean and Sam were teammates for several years, and given how close they appear in this film, it's very plausible they were romantically involved at some point.

I'd be surprised if he didn't get outed after Kara's rescue since a Simon walked right out in front of that hospital and got gunned down in front of Sam.

If I recall correctly, a line was looped in as Kara ran from the building addressing the fact they had to take care of the Simon back at the camp. Before they killed him, I wouldn't be surprised if Simon bragged about how he was slowly killing *them*.

Re: Caprica and Boomer. I think perhaps my recap wasn't clear. Boomer and Caprica seems to believe (I don't know why) that if they bring the humans with them, they will be welcomed with open arms and they can put an end to the conflict. Perhaps Jane wanted to show prior to New Caprica that Boomer and Caprica tried to reconcile the two races and have them live side by side peacefully? But they barely get passed the gate when the Centurions show up and start to open fire on the humans and slaughter them all. At that point - in a melodramatic and poorly acted scene - Boomer and Caprica are on the ground weeping and wailing. They were clueless as to what the real plan was. I guess Cavil double crossed the humans *and* the war heroes.
Ugh I'm still confused! It's not your recap that wasn't clear, I don't think, more that the show's timeline is unclear?

As I recall it, in Downloaded, Boomer and Caprica formulate their plan of forcing a peace and talk about how they'll have to act quickly, before D'Anna resurrects. Then, at some point in the next episode (though an indeterminate amount of time later), in the middle of bombarding the resistance, a ceasefire is declared.

I'm just trying to work out when in that timeline this scene occurs? Cus it has to be between those two episodes, since it's after Boomer and Caprica meet (Downloaded) but before Sam leaves Caprica (LDYB).

But that seems...weird to me. I originally thought that there was a very tight timeline in there, but if that's the case...if Boomer and Caprica made everyone vote to make peace with the humans and THEN the first lot they brought out got slaughtered it makes them insanely naive to even try New Caprica.

So I'm guessing this was...their opening gambit in the "Robot siblings! Let us love the humans!" gambit, and that it went horribly wrong but they didn't stop trying and then later they got the vote that led to the mid-assault ceasefire from LDYB?

...I'm overthinking this I know. At least I don't have to be doubly bitter at missing a well-acted scene? ;)
Here via galacticanews...awesome commentary! Poor Eddie, he really doesn't get the whole gender thing at all.

Even if The Plan is probably a train wreck in some ways, it gave us so many wonderful little moments, and this commentary just confirms that. I mean, DORAL! I love him now! Especially these little things you mentioned that they cut, like the "I made this suit" and "You could paint it teal"...Cylon lolz are my favorite. This movie just made it so that none of them is without a snarky/cracktastic moment.

I'm one of the people who's a Sam/Jean shipper because of this, although I ship them exactly the way I ship Helo/Kara—frakbuddies sometime preseries, mostly BFFs for the series, possibly open to more if there's no one else around, but not at all jealous if one or the other hooks up for good.

Oh, this comment interested me: Anders was not afraid to be scared. I noticed that too (nice to have personal canon confirmed), and that always made him more endearing to me. It's funny, for a character that was supposed to be a one-off, Anders was surprisingly consistently written. He was like this in Season 2, and even after his expansion into a bigger role later, they didn't have to retcon anything for this movie. He was always like that.