Asta 2

A Farscape Post. Yes, I'm A Bit Surprised Too.

As most of you don't know, I've been rewatching Farscape from the beginning. Recently, I've been in a desperate race to catch up with sdwolfpup as she posts almost daily recaps of her first impressions. I like to contribute to the conversations even though I have to stop myself from making brilliant comments at times for fear of spoiling her. I mean she has no idea that........just kidding. ;)

I'm pretty sure I finally caught up to her. And I had all these thoughts while watching 'Fractures' that I was eager to share. Has she posted? As Rygel would say "Nooooooo". Sooooo, since she's been prodding me to post some of my own thoughts, I shall. This won't be one of the big analysis I'm plotting (though it's still pretty damn long-winded) because I intend to finish the whole shebang first.

One of my favorite John/D'Argo moments occurs in 'Fractures' where, once again, we see them acting like buddies and not like two guys coming close to killing each other. Trying to put his best shirt forward for Aeryn's return John asks D'Argo "green or black" to which D'Argo points out that he felt the green never suited his body. I cracked up the first time I saw that exchange and I still crack up now. Unlike previous viewings though, this time I had an epiphany. Maybe it's because I've been watching these back to back to back. It suddenly dawned on me that this was the first time John had worn the black tee since Aeryn departed with TalynJohn.

On a superficial level it's a visual stimulous to tell the audiance that this is The John, the one and only now. Did we need different colored shirts before to differentiate? Not really. We knew by where they were and who they were with who was who. The thing is the two Johns were different and without doing a survey it seems TalynJohn was the better liked of the two. Did one get the slightly better DNA when he was duplicated in 'Eat Me'? No, the essential elements of John Chrichton were present in both.

As is usually the case, the type of person we are is a product of the people we are surrounded by. Early on in the series I felt that John's grounding force, what kept him sane, what centered him was Aeryn. In 'Green Eyed Monster', John finally voices this same opinion when comparing her to the brightest star (yeah, yeah, it was incredibly sappy, but effective). "It's my one constant", "my guide" and without that guide, Aeryn, Moya John seems utterly adrift and participating in some very self-destructive behavior. I mean, how bad is it when you piss off Pilot? Green shirted John is just not himself. But, he believes he's about to be reunited with the woman he loves and he wants to be the man she remembers. So, out comes the black shirt which, granted, he does look better in, but much as when the PK leather made it's magnificent appearance in season one, he's trying to play a part and be what he's expected to be.

Now, on to the angst! 'Fractures' has to be one of the most emotionally complex episodes of the show's run. I'm still trying to fully comprehend how John and Aeryn must have been feeling. My heart breaks to see John's expression of pure joy and excitement at the prospect of reuniting with Aeryn so quickly dissolve as he's given the cold shoulder. The thing is you can't be mad at Aeryn for acting as she does. The man she loved and lost and, most significantly for her, gave herself over to completely is now standing right in front of her looking exactly as he did (hello black shirt) as when she watched him take his last breath.

I give John credit that even before he sees the message from his other self he gets how difficult this must be for Aeryn. Going so far as expressing his sympathy to her for the loss of *him*. To make matters worse, while John thinks the copy died, D'Argo points out that Aeryn, still realing, thinks of him as the copy. How do you compete with a dead man?

This all of leads up to one of my fav endings and best group shots since 'Through the Looking Glass'. Who would have ever thought that Crais would be part of the group and have that not seem strange? And even though she can't quite see this John as her John, it's impossible for her not to be at his side. Without a word, without heitation she is there. What does throw me a bit is that it's Crais, not D'Argo, who is the second to support John's decision to go, uh, into the lion's den. ;) Has Crais changed that much? Yes. But, he's also seen what a wormhole weapon can do while most of the others haven't, hence me cuttimg the others a lot of slack in not jumping into follow John on another one of his damn fool missions.

As utterly depressing as season 3 could be, I'm going to miss it. If only because I can recall my rather 'meh' feelings about early season 4.

I watched 'Blind Justice' while typing this up. Apperantly, Tuesday at ten will still be devoted to 'House' discussion for me. :p
  • Current Mood: accomplished accomplished
When I watched this arc in a single marathon, after a certain point it felt like being hit repeatedly with a two-by-four. Hard to breathe. By this point I see Aeryn and John being themselves in the face of everything that's happened, and I get it, and it breaks my heart.

You're right about the t-shirt, I think, and righter still about Aeryn's grounding effect on John. I still kind of mourn that John's death, even after everything after, because there are firsts that the other one never got to have, and private things that only Aeryn remembers.

(And, yeah. Overinvested much?)
I still kind of mourn that John's death, even after everything after, because there are firsts that the other one never got to have, and private things that only Aeryn remembers.

*Another* difficult moment that happens late in the ep is when Aeryn is getting ready to harpoon the transport pod in order to rescue Rygel and John asks if she's sure this will work? She comments that it will, just like with the boodong (sp?). Of course, this John has no clue what she's talking about because it wasn't he who was there. Later, when Aeryn finally talks to him she describes how "perfect" she and the other John were together and you just know how incredibly painful that is for John to hear knowing he'll never have the memories of those "perfect" moments.

You should do a poll because I will always love MJ more. I can't get emotionally invested in TJ because he's so flat, getting everything he wants. Where's the conflict, the struggle that will make me care? I can appreciate him from a distance, but getting the girl, getting the clone out, being happy and then dying doesn't make me feel sorry for him, it makes me feel like he got everything he ever wanted before dying. And that's incredibly boring for me (if somewhat sweet in retrospect).

Love your analysis of the shirt business. Sounds spot on.

My rewatch is not going as well as yours. I got through the first couple of episodes of season 1 before other things started getting in the way. Like BSG and The X-Files.
I actually thought of you when I was talking about TalynJohn seeming to be the favorite because I read your comments on SDW's LJ. :) While I do favor TJ slightly myself, upon this rewatch I do have to agree with you that he and his relationship with Aeryn was perfect (hell, Aeryn tells MJ just that when describing the relationship) and, therefore, in retrospect, not really them.

Sure, I teared up when TJ died and Aeryn was left devestated. But, as I was watching both parts of 'Infinite Possibilities' the J/A relationship didn't seem realistic to me. These are not the people we knew up to this point or after. The J/A in 'PK Wars' - that's the couple I know and love. They are far from "perfect".

Adding to the list of reasons you gave that prevented you from becoming invested in TJ, the constant 'I love you's' couple with not being able to keep their hands off of each other during really important moments was not only overkill, but lacked logic for two people who when under pressure focus on the situation at hand. (I'd reference a moment in 'PK Wars' here, but I'm trying to keep this spoiler free for SDW ;).

My rewatch is not going as well as yours. I got through the first couple of episodes of season 1 before other things started getting in the way. Like BSG and The X-Files.

My rewatch was not going well for some time. I had gotten through season 1 fairly quickly then I got lazy. Couple that with all the new shows premiering and I would go weeks without watching an ep. But, I got frustrated because I reached a point where I could'n comment on SDW's posts because it had been so long since I'd seen some of the eps. Ultimately, my obssesive desire to not be left out of the loop drove me to speed up my viewing. ;-)
Your comments are as ever thought provoking and insightful and more than ever make me want to invest in all the DVDs and re-watch it. However this isn't the most practical thing so I will have to wait. I did identify with so much of what you wrote and it brought back very fond memories of the show. As for the poll, I preferred MoyaJohn mainly cause he didn't get his girl and the strive for satisfaction continued. I was also heartbroken at the loss of TalynJohn for Aeryn and for MJ.

House update of the week - download not started as I didn't get out of bed until it was time to get ready for work. The student lifstyle rules...
First, the important stuff. 'House' was a repeat this week. However, maybe you haven't seen the episode yet since you are playing catch up. The title was 'Ocmean's Razor' (sp?) if that helps.

The 'Farscape' DVDs are still pricey and not really practical for me to rush out and buy either. I'm actually watching my recordings of the show because I stopped buying the DVD's after season two. Which now I'm regreting because the tape quality is not good in some cases.

When the show originally aired, I was a TalynJohn girl. But, I think my loyalties are equally divided now. It was nice to see John happy, on the other hand, I sympathize with MoyaJohn's loss of Aeryn and how alone and unfocused he felt.
Well, there are the cheaper Starburst editions of the Farscape coming out on DVD.

As for Blind Justice, what did you think of it? I liked the characters in it, but the writing didn't light me on fire. I may have to watcha few more episdoes to see if it gets better.
At this point I'm waiting for the Starburst Editions of the eps I need to come out. Unless I see a really good deal on the 'old' box sets.

I think 'Blind Justice' lost me with the pilot ep. I'm not saying I'll never watch it again, but it seemed too ridiculous even by my standards. What police force would have a blind officer carry a gun? And then we see him pull it out and use it??? It's a shame because I really like some of the actors in it.
Aha, I'm in the process of discovering about House. But you have inspired me to go and hunt for the first three eps on Isohunt.

As for the DVDs, my sister got some cheap cause they were re-releasing them and she got the old style ones. I wish I'd been able to afford them then too. Oh well, that's life.
I love the way you've gotten to the heart of the t-shirt. There's a lot going on behind that piece of clothing.

So, out comes the black shirt which, granted, he does look better in, but much as when the PK leather made it's magnificent appearance in season one, he's trying to play a part and be what he's expected to be.

What's so heartbreaking and mesmerizing about this episode is that he's trying to fill a dead man's shoes (or shirt, as the case may be). And it's impossible. I liked MJohn and TJohn pretty much equally--they were both John to me, in better or worse circumstances--but what John has to deal with at this point kills me. Really, how can you compete with a dead man? In some ways, TJohn had it easy. He did his part, and he died fulfilled, and while it was hard to watch him go, he wasn't the one I felt for at that point. It's the people he left behind who have to try to pick up the pieces, make sense of his loss, that break my heart.

And even though she can't quite see this John as her John, it's impossible for her not to be at his side. Without a word, without heitation she is there. What does throw me a bit is that it's Crais, not D'Argo, who is the second to support John's decision to go, uh, into the lion's den. ;) Has Crais changed that much? Yes. But, he's also seen what a wormhole weapon can do while most of the others haven't, hence me cuttimg the others a lot of slack in not jumping into follow John on another one of his damn fool missions.

I actually don't think Aeryn and Crais's support of John's plans had much to do with John himself at this point. I think for both of them it was a way of honoring TJohn and his sacrifice, and as you pointed out in Crais's case, awareness of what the wormhole weapon can do, how important it is to stop Scorpius from developing one. I also don't think Aeryn went to the command carrier expecting to come back alive--which would certainly explain why she's at such a loss afterwards, aside from the crippling grief. I think she would have been content, at that point, to end her own existence continuing "her" John's fight.
I love the way you've gotten to the heart of the t-shirt. There's a lot going on behind that piece of clothing.

And I haven't even gotten to the pants yet! ;p

I liked MJohn and TJohn pretty much equally--they were both John to me, in better or worse circumstances--but what John has to deal with at this point kills me.

Ya know, I really think watching these eps in quick succession gave me an appreciation and affection for MoyaJohn that I lacked before. When you have a week to ruminate about an epsiode, you can focus on what you didn't like and that was often MJ's behavior. And then you get to see how you wish things were and, well, that's not really fair to judge one against the other when they are living completely different lives formed by very different circumstances.

In some ways, TJohn had it easy. He did his part, and he died fulfilled, and while it was hard to watch him go, he wasn't the one I felt for at that point. It's the people he left behind who have to try to pick up the pieces, make sense of his loss, that break my heart.

Just want to say ITA to this. :)

I also don't think Aeryn went to the command carrier expecting to come back alive--which would certainly explain why she's at such a loss afterwards, aside from the crippling grief. I think she would have been content, at that point, to end her own existence continuing "her" John's fight.

She definitely saw death as a possibility - they all did. But, I think Rygel's words to her in 'The Choice' had a pretty deep affect on her that John would want her to go on living. So, while the PK in her was willing to face death head on for an honorable cause, she would do what she could to get out of the whole mess alive. Besides, she knew from experience there was no way John could handle this all himself. ;)

You know what's funny--in a farscape magazine years ago i read an article with ben browder where he talks about a fan's letter that said that Ben was a better actor when he wore the black t-shirt. and he was a terrible actor when he wore the green t-shirt. obviously, the fan was referring to this arc. ben thought that was funny, and i think he said he would wear the black one from then on...... i wonder if ben's acting skills had anything to do with aeryn's presence. i betcha.

Ok, that is funny. I mean, blaming the writer or director is one thing, but the wardrobe? Hee!

I would hazzard to guess the fan was disappointed, as I was at the time, with the way MoyaJohn was being depicted. It was as if we were only seeing the worst of his personality. I never really found fault with Ben's depiction though. However, I am a firm believer in that an actor is as good as the actors that surround him and it goes without saying that his scenes with Claudia were always amazing. So, yeah, she can be given credit for black tee Ben being a better actor. ;)
I didn't have the problems with S4 that others seemed to. I understood Aeryn's motivations and, except for the first three episodes being Aeryn-less, really liked the season.

I can't say that I was thrilled with Aeryn's depiction in early season four, her seemingly so shut down, but that wasn't my main problem. The writing just seemed really off to me. There was one ep I recalled being so disenchanted with that I almost turned it off. Maybe it wasn't bad in the traditional sense, but I had such high expectations for the show I found myself being let down. To their credit, they did regain focus in latter half of the season.
As Rygel would say "Nooooooo".

Except he'd end it with: "that bitch."

D'Argo points out that he felt the green never suited his body.

I LOVED that moment. D'Argo's all sorts of frustrated but is just so serious about the shirt.

seems TalynJohn was the better liked of the two

I find this interesting because I felt that MoyaJohn was better liked in the responses I got. Rather, people may not have liked how crazy he was, but more people seemed to side with him over TJ. I felt very alone in my TJ love. Hee.

What does throw me a bit is that it's Crais, not D'Argo, who is the second to support John's decision to go, uh, into the lion's den

No kidding. That actually felt off to me. I know D'Argo and John had recently been fighting, but for Crais to be second? It seems odd. Not that Crais volunteered, which I buy, but that D'Argo didn't get to it first. Unless that's supposed to show just how crazy John's plan is. They didn't even know about Talyn's problems at this point, so there's no outward motivation for Crais. Unless he was remembering his time with TJ. Hm.
I find this interesting because I felt that MoyaJohn was better liked in the responses I got. Rather, people may not have liked how crazy he was, but more people seemed to side with him over TJ. I felt very alone in my TJ love. Hee.

I noticed the responses you were getting. I actually lurked a bit over at Sci-Fi's Farscape forum during the shows original run and it seemed that more people prefered TJ over MJ. I agreed at the time. So, I'm wondering what accounts for the shift. Could it be the gift of knowing what happens later? Repeated viewings that allow for deeper explorations of plot development? Or seeing it without interuption which can hinder the flow of an arc (oh how we know that with Buffy!).

They didn't even know about Talyn's problems at this point, so there's no outward motivation for Crais.

Having seen TJ sacrificce himself for the greater good and die a hero, Crais probably thought that a favorable end to living as an outcast and dying alone, in obscurity.
So, I'm wondering what accounts for the shift

As I've just gone through this shift myself, here's my experience. I liked TJ better during the run of episodes because he was much, much less obnoxious than MJ. It never bothered me that he "got everything he wanted," although a lot of people hate him for that. Which TOTALLY baffles me. You hate the person who just had better luck? Uh - wha'?

Anyhow. The reason my feelings tend to side more with MJ now is that knowing TJ dies, I can see that it's actually harder on MJ, and yet he's still John and he's still doing John-like things, he just is having a harder time of it. It's Underdog Syndrome. I'm a sucker for the underdog. But I didn't get that MJ was the underdog until TJ died. I still don't hate TJ though.

Crais probably thought that a favorable end to living as an outcast and dying alone, in obscurity.

And now that I've seen 'Into the Lion's Den: Wolf In Sheep's Clothing,' I see that Crais got to die a hero, too. *SOB*

This show is killing me. KILLING ME.
::hands you a Kleenex::

I felt so bad for you knowing you were about to get an answer as to who dies next in the Season of Death sweepstakes.

I've never resented TJ for getting what he wanted and being happy. My issues, like yours, were with MJ's behavior while largely left to his own devices. Instead of rising above the situation, he just gave into his worst impulses. That was disappointing. But, after TJ dies, he has all my sympathies. I'm still trying to comprehend the impossible position he found himself in - to have the woman you love, who kept you sane, back and she's in morning...for you. The mind boggles.
SPOILER: Don't forget its the same guy
Remember in Eat Me there is no clone or duplicate, simply halved. And despite the early Johns' attempts he still could not decide who was original. Many cuz they are the same.

Does one think that if MJ was put on Tayln it would have made a difference in the outcome? or if TJ was on Moya? Its not the environment that changes, its the person inside making the adjustments to survive in the environment.

IMHO.

Raoul
Re: SPOILER: Don't forget its the same guy
Yeah, I know he's the same up to the point in which they split and then they begin to lead seperate lives based on seperate experiences. Hence the green shirt/black shirt being symbolic of the different people they were becoming.

I did find it interesting in the episode after 'Eat Me' that TJ and MJ are shown to be interchangable with them juggling positions/identities on the ship and planet they are orbiting. Had they both stayed on Moya we would have seen that at their core they were the same.
Re: SPOILER: Don't forget its the same guy
Don't remember the timeframe, but they are doing the rock paper scissors for a very long time and keep trying to prove they are the original.

Oops mental defect wasn't that before they seperated.

Oh well the point is the same.

Raoul