Asta 2

Galactica

First the bad news, I went into work today. The good news is, it gave me the opportunity to listen to the podcast for 'Kobol's Last Gleaming, Pt 1' and watch the deleted scenes for the episode. While this was the first podcast I listened to, I had watched deleted scenes for other episodes earlier in the week. Overall, those scenes I didn't feel added much if anything to their resepctive episodes and being excised wasn't a loss. In one case I actually felt it would have hurt the pacing of the ep. The reason I mention this is because I was surprised to find today that there were seven scenes trimmed from KLG and that several of them I sorely missed not seeing included. Since I'm not sure discussing deleted footage or Ron Moore's commentary would be considered spoilery to anyone at this point, I'm going to break up my thoughts into two sections - my thoughts about the ep as I was watching it followed by some interesting tidbits I picked up in the supplemental material and how it changed my opinion of certain plot points and character actions.


There were many 'OMG's' last night as I watched this episode. (And I'm not even counting the Arms of Apollo. Or the sweat of Apollo. Or the sexy wounds of Apollo. Really, the boy needs to get beat up every week, it works so well for him. :) It's already been said by mant others already, but the teaser was magnificent. It's a testament to the talent of all those involved that very little needed to be conveyed with dialogue. The music, images, and emotions are able to set up the story.

One significant point is converyed via conversation - Apollo's unwillingness to lose control and allow his instincts to take over. Adama's sentiment capping their discussion, "That's why you don't win", acts as an echo of previous comments regarding Lee's control issues and how they are seen as a disadvantage to him. In 'The Hand of God' Adama calls on Starbuck for assistance because she has the ability to "think outside the box. Starbuck, in turn, worries Apollo will overthink the mission and get himself killed. However when we saw Apollo act out without thinking (and with the help of a few drinks) in 'Colonial Day' he placed himself in a dangerous situation he could not have gotten out of on his own.

I was prepared (spoiled) somewhat for the Lee/Kara/Baltar scene having seen a picture of Lee and Kara together sans clothing. I was assured by someone it wasn't waht I thought it was which left me going "Huh?". OK, now I get it. Kara appears to have more of an interest in Lee than just being his buddy though hasn't attempted to act on her feelings. Considering their tangled family history and current situation I can't say as I blame her.

Having skimmed LJ earlier I could see that many were less than pleased with Lee's treatment of Kara after her learned who she had slept with. For some reason I can't be mad at him. Maybe it's because this is an example of what happens when you bottle up your emotions and not knowing how to deal with them when you can no longer hold them in check. He was hurt (jealousy rearing it's ugly head?) and wanted to hurt her back. But, basically calling her a slut and embarrassing her in front of everyone in the bay was beneath him. Sadly, it's also human nature more often than not. What made it all the worse to endure was Kara taking it from him and reminding him what a "screw up" she is as she walked away. Lee is one of the two closest peope to her and he fails to see past the front she puts up.

I was quite shocked that Helo shot Caprica Boomer. I really didn't think he had it in him. Then again, I'm thinking of what usually happens in these situations on TV because we can't tarnish the hero's image. He's angry, hurt, and betrayed by someone he loves and he wanted to hurt her back (hmmm, I'm sensing a pattern here...) so he pulls the trigger. Yet, he can't bring himself to kill her. I found it intersting that the Sharon 'clones' are flawed in the eyes of her fellow Cylon's - too soft, too emotional, perhaps too human. Now, I wonder why she was created that way and was she the first of her kind or the last? Did their creator desire to weed out the humanity in his creations or was he attempting to add it back in?

Baltar's actions with Galactica Boomer perplexed me. Was his reaffirming her belief that killing herself was the right thing to do purely an act of self-preservation or was he thinking about what was in the best interests for all aboard Galactica? He appeared genuinly pained by what he was encouraging her to do and it's the first time I found myself sympathizing with him. None of this seemed to be part of Six's plan. It's possible she's starting to lose control of Baltar. Or,, as someone mentioned to me earlier today, is this what she had hoped for all along? Has she given Baltar the confidence to act of his own accord when in fact he is still doing the cylon's bidding?

It's fascinating to watch how faith or the lack of it played a part in various individuals decision making. Laura has a renewd faith due to her illness, but only in so far that it will help her lead her people to a new home. Adama is looking at their predicament from a purely secular perspective, choosing to deal with the reality of their current situation and taking it a day at a time. Kara seemingly lost the faith she had placed in Adama and his promise of the existence of earth.


Now, What I Learned from the Podcast and Deleted Scenes....

Interesting bit of trivia, Jamie and Edward came up with the idea of the boxing and choreographed the scenes themselves. I love hearing information such as this because it shows me how seriously these actors take their roles and how well they grasp their characters so early in the series run.

Well, if you thought Lee came off bad in what we did see, be thankful for rewrites. Originally his confrontation with Kara was to come later...in the squad room...in front of everybody. The thinking was that Kara is always very open with her emotions, not holding back, so this would be Lee's attempt of a sort of joke on her. They eventually decided it was out of character for Lee. Thank you Mr Moore.

Apparently I was sympathizing with Baltar too quickly. Ron Moore refers to him as a "manipulator" and implies that he's even more dangerous now than before. Previously, Baltar was content to sit back and watch events unfold. In convincing Boomer to kill herself he's now actively participating in altering events taking place around him.

The commentary led me to believe that the writers had conceived of far more material than could possibly fit into a two hour finale and the deleted scenes are proof of that. (BTW, it was to be seen as a two hour finale and Moore doesn't seem too pleased it got cut into two parts.)

There was what I would call a C plot involving Tigh and Ellen and their wedding anniversary. Given how much they were dealing with in the episode this just wouldn't fit in, not to mention I didn't see much relevence to anything else that was happening. However, it was interesting to see Ellen manipulating Tigh going on about how it was easier for him when she was dead and how he doesn't get the respect he deserves. She's definitely setting him up for something.

What I was very dissapointed to see cut were several scenes involving Lee and Kara that helped shed light on thier actions and behavior in what we did see. Not to mention, we find out how Lee deduced that it was Baltar Kara slept with.

Scene one establishes they go running together on a regular basis. Meeting up with Kara, his first remark to her is on the state of her hair followed by "you get laid?". She retorts with a comment about his black eye. He extends his hand to her to help her up from where she's sitting, she refuses to take it which gets an "OK, it's like that" from Lee. Except it's not like that and Lee's oblivious to Kara's avoidance of any physical contact between them.

Later, when they have to stop their run do to pain in Kara's knee they fall back to their earlier discussion. Lee asks if she's OK and teasingly inquires if it's "Anyone I know?" Now, He doesn't really seem upset by the prospect of her sleeping with another man which makes me wonder about my previous assumption that his anger towards Kara was a result of jealousy. It would seem that it's the fact that it's Baltar that ticks him off. It's possible he was upset that he feels she chose someone beneath her even if it was just a meaningless encounter.

As to how Lee puts tow and two together, Lee is witness to Baltar excusing himself from the group he is with to take Kara aside and apologize to her for his earlier, drunken behavior. Even though the apology seems sincere, he throws in how he's never been mistaken for another man before to which Kara replies it never happened - another blow to his ego I'm sure.

Some of the other, not terribly important stuff that was cut included.....Tyrol springing Socinus (AKA the guy who took the fall for him in 'Litmus') from the brig. A discussion between Billy and Roslin regarding the drug she is using to treat her cancer. Lee visting Boomer, telling her what a great pilot she is, how valuable she is to the fleet, and chastising her for not checking her gun (buy a clue Lee, buy a clue!). And Baltar asking Six for some alone time and informing her how it will help their relationship. Typical male. :p

Here endeth another long winded post. Someday I'll learn editing is my friend. :)
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It's too bad they cut the Lee/Kara scenes because it would have made the confrontation in the bay make more sense.

I wasn't thrilled with Lee, but as I said in my LJ, what he did gives him some depth. Everyone telling him he isn't good enough, doesn't think outside the box, doesn't lose control, after Lee has spent his life trying to do everything. right. In a way, he's like a 1000 times cooler version of Riley Finn. Now, Kara caps it by sleeping with another quirky genious, and something in Lee says 'to hell with this'.
Everyone telling him he isn't good enough, doesn't think outside the box, doesn't lose control, after Lee has spent his life trying to do everything. right. In a way, he's like a 1000 times cooler version of Riley Finn.

First off, Hee! Second, you make me look at Lee's blow up at Kara from another perspective. There may be more to his reaction than simple jealousy. Lee's set what I would hazzard to guess are impossibly high standards for himself which I think can make him unforgiving for what he perceives as failures in others. At the same time, I think he believes Kara to be a better person than how her actions cause her to be seen whether it's having a one night stand, throwing a punch at Tigh in the mini, or disregarding orders.
Because of time constraints they had to make a lot of difficult cuts with this episode and likely next weeks too. It seemed to come down to what could be left out without altering the story arc. If they did want to maintain the jealousy angle for his reaction, it was probably a good idea to get rid of any scenes that could cast doubt on that.

I caught the promo while I wached the 'Stargate' finale (I'm trying get the feel for the show). I have to say Ben looks almost as good in a uniform as he does in the leather. ;-)
I think Lee was an utter fuckwit to Kara in this episode, but as I said in my own post, none of the major players were really behaving well, and he wasn't alone in his fuckwittedness (is that a word?). Lee basically emotionally flays Kara; Kara lets her feelings rule her and hares off on a fool's errand, taking the best means of rescue for those trapped on Kobol with her; Roslin lets her concern for her own mortality guide her to some pretty sketchy decision-making. I wanted to smack them all, but God does that make for good storytelling.

Was his reaffirming her belief that killing herself was the right thing to do purely an act of self-preservation or was he thinking about what was in the best interests for all aboard Galactica? He appeared genuinly pained by what he was encouraging her to do and it's the first time I found myself sympathizing with him.

I think in this case it was a little from column A and a little from column B for Dr. Baltar. In general, I think his service to humanity coincides with his need to save his own skin. And I do think he found it really unpleasant to talk Sharon into suicide--not the least because he more than any other human has a sense of Cylons as complex beings (and how interesting is that!)--but that certainly wasn't going to stop him.

I'm really glad they went with the less public and overtly humiliating Lee/Kara scene. I can forgive him for losing it and going for the jugular with her, but I don't think I would have been able to forgive him for taunting and humiliating her in front of others.

Re: the cut scenes. The apology scene was interesting; you could see Apollo in the background, stopping to observe and then abruptly turning on his heel. But while it may shed light on Baltar and Starbuck's future dynamic--Baltar obviously wanted to mend fences over his earlier behavior, keep the door open, and I can't help but to think he's still interested in her, possibly more interested since she's more unattainable and he feels like he needs to "win" against Lee--I'm not convinced the scene was necessary to show how Apollo put two and two together. I think the poker (triad, pyriamid, whatever the hell it's called) scene was sufficient for that.

The Starbuck & Apollo running scene I have a lot of trouble with, though. I can sort of make sense of it if I approach it as Lee teasing Kara about having gotten laid because he didn't think it was even a remote possibility, and because they've done a lot of teasing like that in the past, and was cold-cocked by the reality that she had in fact gotten laid the previous night. But I can't make sense of the idea that it was Baltar specifically that made Lee go off the deep end, because that only makes sense if Lee's upset that Kara's making bad choices, repeating old, self-destructive patterns. That attitude comes from a place of exasperated caring about someone, and I can't reconcile that with the way he laid into her in the hangar, which much more extreme than an "I'm worried about the choices you're making" kind of talking-to. I don't know why it ended up on the cutting room floor, but it could well have been because it simply didn't match the tone of their later conversation at all. I don't think it did.
I can't help but to think he's still interested in her, possibly more interested since she's more unattainable and he feels like he needs to "win" against Lee

Baltar almost always has an alterior motive, so I have to believe his apology was also a way for him to keep the door open for any possible future encounters. Not to mention, he's not use to taking a back seat to another man. He may be looking to take up the challenge of trying to take Lee's place in Kara's heart/mind.

As I said to Miranda above, Lee sets impossibly high standards for himself and to project those standards onto others really isn't fair. At the same time, he cares about Kara and because of that I feel he may be frustrated at the bad choices he sees Kara making knowing she's better than how she is allowing herself to be perceived. Throw in some jealousy issues and while I can't condone his anger, I can understand where it stems from.
He may be looking to take up the challenge of trying to take Lee's place in Kara's heart/mind.

I think that's definitely the case, as he pretty much threw down the challenge to Lee over the poker (triad, pyramid, whatever) table. Lee just didn't have any idea what the hell he was talking about at the moment. I don't think Baltar will deal well at all with someone who uses him, and who has no interest in making him a focus of her life.

At the same time, he cares about Kara and because of that I feel he may be frustrated at the bad choices he sees Kara making knowing she's better than how she is allowing herself to be perceived. Throw in some jealousy issues and while I can't condone his anger, I can understand where it stems from.

I can't rule out Lee's disappointment in Baltar as a particularly bad choice as part of what made him blow up. But that confrontation just went so far beyond friendly concern, and was in many ways so antithetical to it (in that he was deliberately trying to hurt her himself) I can't see it as the main motivating force. That she chose Baltar, a really poor decision, might have been the icing on the angst cake, but I don't think it was the cake. But, yeah, I've been calling him names but I really understand where he was coming from, the pain and frustration and bewilderment behind his actions.
Lee sets impossibly high standards for himself and to project those standards onto others really isn't fair

I hadn't considered this for Lee but it really rings true. He seems to be unreasonably idealistic in his view of the world that stems from his staunch beliefs in the essence of the law. I still haven't watched the deleted scenes, but from what you say I think I'm glad they cut the scene where Lee is teasing Kara about getting laid. Although it would have dramatically changed the tone of the confrontation in the hangar to be more directly about Baltar and not about Kara sleeping with someone who happens to be Baltar.

Unless Lee IS mad because it's Baltar - he does specifically bring up that she's fracked the Vice President. It may be tied into this sense of expecting better of people, both Kara AND Baltar and their roles in this dangerous time. I don't know if he would have been as upset if it had just been a non-military or government person, honestly.

No, wait, I know what it is! OMG - He's jealous because he can't be with Laura!!!!!

It all comes back to Laura/Lee. Hee.
No, wait, I know what it is! OMG - He's jealous because he can't be with Laura!!!!!

It all comes back to Laura/Lee. Hee.


I like the way you think! :-)
I haven't watched teh delted scenes, but I wouldn't object to longer edits of the episodes on the DVD Release if the deleted scenes put back in help make the episode be ven greater.