Asta 2

Horatio Hornblower

This evening I watched 'The Duchess and the Devil' and the first half of 'Mutiny'. I had to stop watching the latter because a) Wanted was coming on (it's Gary Cole - shut up) and b) the captain was getting on my last nerve.

So far, I'm liking these films more so then the last time around. And, yes, my eyes now focused on Jamie has a lot to do with that. I was anxiously awaiting his presence in TDatD and wondering where the hell he was. Then I get my introduction to Archie Kennedy and was blown away. It took about two seconds for my heart to break for him. The boy can act. Sure, he's good on 'Galactica', but I'm now feeling we haven't really seen him stretched to his full potential there. I could feel Archie's pain, despair and lack of forgiveness he towards himself. It wasn't weakness that caused him to go nearly mad - we saw Horatio start to lose it after a much shorter stay in that hole - even the strongest person would be affected by that kind of torture. The important thing is he survived. (And how much did I hate Hunter for allowing him to starve himself to death. Then the bastard had to go and sacrifice himself.) Of course, I already know his ultimate fate and that my heart is going to be smashed into tiny pieces once again. It's irrational, I know, but it's hard for me to see him suffer.

As most of you know, I'm not really into slash. Xander and Spike? I'll never get. House and Wilson? I can intellectualize that. But, OMG, Archie doesn't just love Hoartio, he loves Horatio. I mean, he conveniently passed out from starving just as Horatio asked if he had a girl back home. Talk about dodging a question. And he couldn't seem to peel his eyes off of Horatio. They would have made a very cute couple.

It's a little disturbing that even on death's door and in a bad hair extensions, I still found Jamie incredibly attractive. He also had to recite Shakepeare. ::dies::

Honestly, I tried not to draw BSG comparions, but it was hard not to. Ron Moore seemed to make a big issue in the podcast that Lee may not have been on duty when he broke his parole. In HH, I found it interesting that when Horatio gives hisparole he tells the officer that outside the hours of his parole it's his duty to try and escape - to return to his ship and country. Always a loophole.

And it's not fair to judge by one movie, but I got this sense that Archie, much as Lee, wasn't really cut out for this life they found themselves in. Then again, I don't know any of Archie's backstory and what they did mention here raised some questions for me. The men refer to Archie's "fits" and a short time later we see him convulsing in his bed. I'm assuming he suffers from epilepsy. I'm also assuming he wishes to keep that a secret? And because of that he seems to have gotten a bit of a bad wrap for buckling under pressure. Oh, and can anyone tell me how, when, where he was captured?

Again in 'Mutiny' (well, the first hour) I saw a bit of Lee - questioning the captian's orders which he sees as unjust, rightfully so, and seemingly willing to act.

That's all for now folks....
  • Current Mood: sleepy sleepy
I love TDatD for the scene in my icon alone, as well as just the way Horatio beats himself up for ignoring Archie for a woman. HEE. True love. I think Mutiny and Retribution are even better though. Retribution, especially, is the ultimate Archie episode, IMO. There's some great, great stuff there.

As for the fits, there is a "bad guy" who's a lieutenant on Archie and Horatio's first command. His name is Jack and he's clearly been abusing Archie for awhile. It's so bad that when Jack returns, Archie starts having fits; they seem to be a reaction to stress, basically. You never see them again after TDatD, thankfully. They were all sneaking onboard an enemy ship one night when Archie had a fit in the rowboat (because Jack was there giving them shit basically) and in order to keep him quiet, *Horatio* had to knock Archie out with an oar. (So traumatic.) Anyway, because he's now unconscious, they leave Archie in the rowboat while everyone else storms the enemy ship.

During the storming, Jack sees Archie lying in the rowboat unconcious so he cuts the rowboat loose so Archie drifts off alone, one his own, on the open sea, never to be heard from again. (Or at least until TDatD. ;) ) Jack then shoots Horatio but that's a whole other thing.

I agree, too, about how strong he must have been to survive in that prison (including that tiny cell torture Horatio went through) all on his own. *sniff*

And as proof of the Pure and True Love of Archie and Horatio, I give you this look:

Not that I've given this a lot of thought or anything.
I'm amused by the ways we approached it though.

And, OH. The deck scene. I swear, this is totally my slash OTP. I need 100 icon spaces.
Thanks for the recap. Now, I'm all sad again. :( Poor Archie. He suffered so much in his short life. ::sniff:: It's intersting that the 'fits' seem to be a result of stress. I would still think that there is a physical problem (perhaps caused by the abuse) and the stress triggers it. I really need to see the previous films now.

God, there were so many adoring looks at Horatio. If these books were written today I have to wonder if they might go there. It definitely seems as if they were adding subtext into the movies and I'm ususally the last person to pick up on these things, but, damn, was it obvious. Seriously, if there is some good fic to be found centered around those two I'd probably read it.

Thanks for sharing the pic btw. :) A shot I found particularly yummy was in 'Mutiny' when Archiw is washing up and he has on the flowing white shirt, opened just enough to expose a bit of his chest. ::drools::
But, OMG, Archie doesn't just love Horatio, he loves Horatio.

See, this is my thing, too. It's just... undeniable. They are so unbelievably adorable together, and so good for each other, and dude, Horatio leaning over him in bed PLAYING with his SHIRT TIES... yes. They are so in love. Have you seen the part in "Mutiny" yet where they're on the deck at night, talking quietly with their heads close together? *dies*

He also had to recite Shakespeare.

Yeah. That was just not fair. That was, like, off-sides or something. ;)

I agree, it's hard to resist making HH/BSG parallels... they don't always work, exactly (Horatio and Archie don't exactly track to Apollo and Starbuck, or whatever), but there certainly are similarities. Though I think Lee has more in common with Horatio than with Archie. Jamie Bamber has said in interviews--and I tend to agree with this interpretation--that Archie is reacting much as many of us mere mortals would... he's terrified, and he doesn't know what to do, and he freaks out a lot. He's such a nice (and necessary, I think) contrast to Horatio that way--Horatio is The Hero, and he generally responds as such; Archie is a normal man, and responds as such, too.

I don't know much about Archie's backstory beyond what's mentioned in the films (which isn't much). I would love to know more. But I do get the strong suspicion that the military wasn't exactly his lifelong passion, you know?

The deal with Archie's "fits" is that, when we last saw him (at the end of the first installment--he's not in the second one at all), he had a fit as they were trying to sneak up on an enemy ship, and Horatio ended up having to knock him out to keep him quiet. So Archie is lying there, unconscious, in the boat, and this total bastard crewmate of theirs (long story) cuts the tie and Archie just drifts away, still unconscious. So his illness isn't exactly a secret; I think it's just something he's ashamed of and doesn't like to discuss.

The thing that really gets me about Archie as a character is that he grows so much from when we first meet him... as much as the story is about Horatio's growth from boy to man, Archie gets a very similar level of development, and it's wonderful to see. Also makes his eventual fate a little easier to deal with. (Wait till you see that scene. It will break your heart, but it is, I kid you not, the most perfect death scene I have ever seen. It is amazing, and Jamie Bamber and Ioan Gruffudd both act the shit out of it.)
Hee! I hear that. And yes. 100 icon spaces, please. 25 for Archie and Horatio, 25 for Starbuck and Apollo, and I can fill the rest pretty easily. :)

Have you seen the part in "Mutiny" yet where they're on the deck at night, talking quietly with their heads close together? *dies*

I think that's where I stopped the tape last night. I figured it would be a good place to start watching again. ;)

Jamie Bamber has said in interviews--and I tend to agree with this interpretation--that Archie is reacting much as many of us mere mortals would... he's terrified, and he doesn't know what to do, and he freaks out a lot. He's such a nice (and necessary, I think) contrast to Horatio that way--Horatio is The Hero, and he generally responds as such; Archie is a normal man, and responds as such, too.

Yes, I do see that. I don't want to say Lee is braver per se, because we've seen that he too can be fearful (talking to himself in HoG and VoD, visiably terrified by the cylon in VoD), but he does seem to have more of a take charge attitude and can be more reckless when it comes to his own life. And Lee would be substantiality older than Archie providing him greater maturity and time to acquire a sense of calm and control.

I've already noticed some character growth in Archie. He much more readily speaks up for himself and I noticed just a hint of snark. Must be what Jamie brings to his roles. ;)

I think I may need a HH icon now...
Damn, I have to finally get my act together and get in on the HH squee. [looks wistfully at the never-ending list of films to rent]

I decided to do this stalking thing properly, and I've friended you. I hope that's alright. Please don't feel obligated to friend back, I've been kinda quiet lately and I rarely talk about fandom stuff (except for occasional semi-coherent squee). I make up by haunting other people's journals, though.
I had watched a couple of these films when they first aired and quickly lost interest. I'm generally bored with the subject matter and, well, Jamie apparently needed to make some trips to the gym before I took notice of his attributes. ;)

And, like I said, I'm the least slashy person I know and wow, is there a great love story at work here. The films really are well done overall though and I can recommend checking them out.

Welcome and thanks for the haunting. Feel free to tell me I'm nuts anytime, everyone else does. ;)

When the films originally aired there was much discussion about Horatio and Archie's relationship on the A&E message boards; those who had read the books were far less likely to agree with your assessment than those who had never read the books. Since the character of Archie is primarily an invention of the screenwriters, I think the subtext was more than a little intentional. I think it's believable because the characters are just so young (still in their late teens), that it makes sense that they would tend to bond and be very attached to each other, and they had a mutual hatred for the evil Simpson.

The books are very short on developing supporting characters. Forrester's main interest was Hornblower, so he gave secondary and minor characters short shrift, so it was up to the screenwriters to develop them and give them depth. They did a great job with Archie, and with Matthews and Styles, who served with Horatio and Archie from the beginning. Lt. Bush is in the books, and his relationship with Hornblower in the books is actually more like the one between Horation and Archie in the movies.