Apollo - OMG Yay - sdwolfpup

Resurrection Ship Pt 1

Note to danceswithwords, I think I got you beat in the long winded department. ;)


When I heard ‘Resurrection Ship’ was to be expanded from one part to two (more on that later), I had my concerns. In my experience, when a show opts to pad a script, one or both episodes suffer. I have to say, I didn’t feel that way here. There perhaps were moments here or there, but, overall, I felt all the scenes were necessary to advance the story or helped to provide a little more character insight. Something I felt was lacking in ‘Pegasus’.

While I enjoyed the episode very much, there were still some things I questioned. We start off with Kat apparently leading the attack on ‘Pegasus’. Now, I’ve seen many people say this makes her the CAG, but I’m not 100% certain of that. Still, she definitely seemed to be the leader out there and while I’m thrilled to see her back in a viper, she recently was going through withdrawal and, I’d say, a nervous breakdown. Shouldn’t someone else have been in charge?

I also feel there are many gaps in the logic behind the two assassination plots. I knew that Laura was the one to propose the need to eliminate Cain to Adama. I’ve seen in a few posts that some were surprised by her proposal. I wasn’t. We know she’s pragmatic and quick to assess a situation. Even before we had all the facts it seemed clear that Cain was dangerous, not just to Laura and Adama, but the entire fleet and thus the survival of their civilization. I like how she reminded Adama of his oath to protect the fleet. Cain is still stuck in the moment when life as they knew it ended. She’s still fighting a war when, as Laura pointed out to Adama long ago, the war is over - they lost. It’s now about survival. Instead, we see Cain reckless at every turn with the lives of the people. If Cain was allowed to remain in command, she’d be helping the Cylons by making the fleet (if she didn’t jettison it like the one she had previously) susceptible to annihilation.

Watching Adama interact with Laura, his crew, Lee and Kara, and seeing how far he was willing to go to save Helo and Tyrol, it reinforced for me how important family is on this show. I’m not saying that if Adama had never had children he’d be just like Cain, but it definitely helped him keep his ties to humanity and his focus on what is important.

I understood Adama needing more evidence in regards to how dangerous Cain could be. Hearing about the executions of families (which, given what we’ve seen, is still the most chilling thing I’ve seen/heard yet on this show) and leaving others to die, it’s easy to see what would come next for them all.

When Adama finally sees that Laura is right and proceeds to develop a plan, I’m intrigued that he turns to Kara, not Lee, to carry it out. It probably makes the most sense. Cain seems to like Kara and it would be easier for her to get close enough to her to do the job. Yet, I have to admit, I reacted to the scene on a more emotional level. I just don’t think Adama could ask his son to carry out a murder. And it’s not that Lee couldn’t do it. I think given all the facts, knowing what he’s already fought and sacrificed for is in danger of destruction, I think he carry out such an assignment. However, I just don’t think Adama could put that burden on him if he sees there is another option. I’m also increasingly coming to believe that while Adama surely loves both Kara and Lee, he may, in fact, have stronger ties to his son than they or I realized.

While I get Laura/Adama’s need to get rid of Cain and Cain’s belief that Adama must go, there are numerous problems with their plans. Cain’s is most troublesome to me because let’s look at what would happen. Assuming she eliminates Adama and CIC, Lee would next have to be taken out because you know he’d seek revenge. Kara would then want retribution for the killing of those closest to her. Following that we would be back to the beginning as Galactica and Pegasus crews fight and kill each other, thus providing the Cylons with a great opportunity to wipe them all out.

Speaking of Kara, I don’t believe she completely trusts Cain (given her “What choice do we have?” response to Lee), but I’m seeing a pattern of quick to believe what you want to believe. Or perhaps a desire to have faith in people who appear to have faith in you. She believed Adama when he made his promises to lead them to earth. Now we have Cain promising to go back to Caprica. Would Cain really go back there? Yes, I believe so. But it wouldn’t be to save the people still stranded there; it would be just another battlefield for her to fight Cylons.

Damn if they didn’t make me *really* like Baltar in this episode. It helped that he acted sane throughout. And he wants to let go of the fantasy world he’s created – it doesn’t interest him anymore. Color me impressed that he’d rather live in the harsh reality he finds himself in, trying to help a very broken Six, then escape into a dream world with a beautiful woman. And what of his reporting back to Cain with the information Pegasus Six provided about the resurrection ship? Baltar wants to save this Six, yet, by helping Cain, he’s providing her with a means of ending her existence as she wishes.

It also struck me that when this Six spoke of being killed so she may be “reborn” she has a very Fundamentalist approach to her beliefs. Has Six or any Cylon used that specific term before? Do they believe in a heaven? If they carry out god’s plan are they to be rewarded with some glorious after life?

I found myself liking Helo a lot this week which was a bit odd considering his limited screen time. As I was pondering why this was the case last night, it hit me; it was because he wasn’t with Sharon. Don’t get me wrong, I like Helo and Sharon together, it’s just that they always seem to be together. Helo is perhaps the only character we really haven’t seen on his own or interacting with the rest of the characters. Up to this episode, his storyline was completely tied to Sharon’s. We know he really loves her, that he’s very noble and loyal, but what do we really know about him as an individual? I liked hearing him talk with Tyrol and share how he feels. And I *loved* the scene with he, Tyrol, and Lee because I thought it was very cool to get to see the guys hang out together and catch up - even if it is in the brig. ;)

I’m glad Adama apologized to Sharon for the attack. He didn’t have to do it, but I think he needed to make the point that that behavior will not be tolerated on his ship. And while he definitely is seeing her as an individual rather than a machine or thing, he apparently isn’t quite willing to put her on the same level as humans. Sending her back to the place she was nearly raped was a bit cold.

Favorite quote had to be Kara’s “We’re all friendlies. So, let’s be friendly.” Though Lee’s faux innocent “I’m just a passenger back here.” to Stinger cracked me up too.


Generally, I do a separate post for the podcast, but it’s just not worth it. This is the first time I think RM has possibly lied as far as I know. He claims the reason for the ‘Resurrection Ship’ becoming two episodes was because it ran twenty minutes long, there were just too many cuts that would have had to have been made, and it would have severely hurt the story. That may be true, but he neglected to talk about how a later ep had production suspended because it was not turning out as anticipated and it was then that they decided to go back and expand RS to ensure a twenty episode season.

Most of what he discussed was how scenes got shuffled between the two eps, how scenes were expanded. or what was added in. The scene with Sharon, Adama, and Cottle was a late addition - she was not originally in the episode. The scene where Helo and Tyrol discuss Sharon is only half of the scene. The other half appears in Part 2 so if you notice they are in the exact same positions hours later, you’ll know why. ;) Six was actually in the scene where Pegasus Six was changing clothes. She was cut out in editing because her presence was deemed too distracting.

In early drafts of the script, the vipers did fire on each other at the beginning of the ep. It was decided that once these people had nearly killed each other, they would never be able to trust each other.

I was wondering why the CAG disappeared. Was he wallowing in humiliation somewhere getting drunk? We may never know. The actor simply was unavailable for additional filming. However, RM seemed to imply that they would like to bring him back.

And if you want to know why Cain is so EVIL, blame the network. Sci-Fi felt they needed something extremely dark to justify Adama killing her. Killing women and children made the network happy. Don’t you just love cable?



I’m not even a huge fan, but, damn, I was excited to see opening credits return.

Anyone think the Ori are responsible for the bird flu?

May I ask for more character development and less techno babble? Yeah, it won’t happen, but I asked.

Didn’t William B Davis use to be able to act? Of course, it’s hard to emote with flour on your face.

Ben and Michael actually have nice chemistry together. Daniel’s “They have a plan.” While Cameron does air quotes was quite humorous. I also was wondering in they were mocking themselves or BSG. ;)
  • Current Mood: anxious anxious
I am so glad that I am all caught up with BSG so I can finally read your reactions when it happens vs. months and months later.

Re: The War vs. Survival - I completely agree, in fact when Cain said that they were at war, I said out loud to my father, "Dude the war is over. Get over it girl." I think she is very much still clinging to some hope that this is her career battle. The one that she could go down in the history books for. Defeating the entire Cylon army the cost be damned.

Personally I hate her. I hated her when she pulled rank when she first came on the scene. Military rules notwithstanding she should have realized that this wasn't just some standard op and these weren't normal times. The fleet had been through an awful lot with Adama and the way she mishandles things is just horrible. I can't wait for her to die. Or turn out to be a Cylon.

My Dad asked an interesting question, which was how did they find out that Pegasus Six was a Cylon. She mentioned a mission, and her belief that she would be killed when it was over. I really am looking forward to that unveil.

Re: The Cylons and Heaven - I think there was an episode where Six talked about how there was nothing beyond life. No Heaven or Hell, that sounds familiar to me, but then again I have just watched S1 and 2.0 in a very short span of time and it all kinda bleeds together for me.

I enjoyed your thoughts and I am so glad I get to comment on them now when it is still timely!
YAY! to another convert. :)

The one that she could go down in the history books for. Defeating the entire Cylon army the cost be damned.

Accept there wouldn't be in history books because with her methods there would be no one left to write them!

I don't think they've made it clear how they found out Pegasus Six was a Cylon. That's a good question. It's very possible that she simply confessed after they first began torturing and raping her. She probably thought that once she gave them that bit of info they'd kill her. Again, another difference as to how Cain and Adama/the President treat Cylon prisoners. Once Leoben gave Laura the info she wanted in 'Flesh and Bone' she had him blown out the airlock, not sent back to be tortured more for the fun of it.
And if you want to know why Cain is so EVIL, blame the network. Sci-Fi felt they needed something extremely dark to justify Adama killing her. Killing women and children made the network happy. Don’t you just love cable?

You mean Ron Moore was just following orders? Deferring to the legitimate chain of command?

::kicks something::
In fairness, the viewers and Adama also needed something extremely dark, if the plan was to off her from the beginning. If Roslin had decided to kill her because she didn't like her way of giving orders to Adama, it wouldn't have worked. And been OOC.

And regarding the "women and children" thing: I was kind of pleased that the families travelling with the breadwinning-type persons were "wives, husbands and children". But okay, that won't soothe the pain over Cain being evil.
And regarding the "women and children" thing: I was kind of pleased that the families travelling with the breadwinning-type persons were "wives, husbands and children".

I hadn't even thought of that and I think it's because the show has done such an excellent job of treating people, no matter race, religious preference, or gender, as equals. It seemed perfectly logical that women may be taken into service with the men being left behind.
I'm generally pleased by the gender issues on BSG, though I admit it bugs me a little that the Pegasus crew seem to be almost all men. But I always pay attention to it; like spotting the first female marine on Galactica, this pleased me.
Well, we have seen a lot less of the Pegasus crew than the Galactica crew, so maybe there are women there that we just haven't seen yet. Six was evidently part of the crew, so they must be there. I'd love to see theor response to what happened to Six.

BTW, I intend to respond to your post, but I have to dash now to go see 'Brokeback Mountain'. :)
Well, Ron doesn't follow every dictate from the network and, honestly, the network has sent him some good notes with suggestions that I think turned out better than what was planned. I'm torn on this myself. I do feel Adama needed that one piece of information that would convince him that Cain had to be killed and slaughtering civilians would certainly do it. On the other hand, I liked that in 'Pegasus' Cain made come good points and I was hoping to see a greyer character just this side of in the wrong. But now any points she made that were correct are basically negated by these horrific things she's done.
I'm here via dancesforwords, if you don't mind.

That may be true, but he neglected to talk about how a later ep had production suspended because it was not turning out as anticipated and it was then that they decided to go back and expand RS to ensure a twenty episode season.

I'd read about that too, but two-three days ago, Hollywood North Report (I think) gave the eps titles until the end of the season, and "downloaded", the ep that they supposedly canned, is still on it. It's episode 218, so I'm a little confused now. Maybe they decided to reshoot part of it?

Yet, I have to admit, I reacted to the scene on a more emotional level. I just don’t think Adama could ask his son to carry out a murder. And it’s not that Lee couldn’t do it. I think given all the facts, knowing what he’s already fought and sacrificed for is in danger of destruction, I think he carry out such an assignment. However, I just don’t think Adama could put that burden on him if he sees there is another option.

I'm not sure about that, given that according to Adama's plan, Lee will be in CIC with Kara, watching her back. And since I'm sure that at least part of the officers would try to shoot them after Cain's murder, I don't think that he's trying to keep Lee's hands clean here. But Kara is the CAG and Cain doesn't care for Lee, and if the murder must follow the pattern of the way Boomer shot Adama, Kara has to be the one to do it: while Kara has to go to CIC to report after the mission and can justify taking Lee with her, Lee would have no reason to report to CIC without Kara. And Kara will be the one talking to Cain, so I think that Adama is simply going for effectiveness here. That said, it's entirely possible that this makes Kara feel like the person people go to when they need someone to do their dirty job, particularly since it doesn't seem that Adama took the trouble to explain what Cain had done to justify murder.
DSW has excellent taste in friends, so welcome! :)

After seeing a spoiler tidbit las night and trying to figure out where it may fit into the series, I went to Gateworld to look at the episode guide and saw 'Downloaded' back. I did hear they were going to salvage some of what they filmed to use in another episode, but it's possible they ended up reworking the ep. From what I gathered, the main problem with the ep was the single POV and lack of interaction of the cast. Maybe they found a way to fix that?

That said, it's entirely possible that this makes Kara feel like the person people go to when they need someone to do their dirty job, particularly since it doesn't seem that Adama took the trouble to explain what Cain had done to justify murder.

Yeah, just about everyone has mentioned that Adama left out an important detail when asking Kara to commit murder. I doubt Kara would be as shocked by the request if she knew she had executed civilians. It's possible that we'll pick up on their conversation next week and he'll share that with her.

And I agree that Kara will be able to get closer to Cain far easier than Lee could. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but I just felt instinctively that Adama was trying to spare his son from enduring anymore trauma if he could. That's not to say he didn't think he could do it or that he feels he's weak in any way, just that he found a way not to have him directly involved. And he definitely wants Lee there to watch Kara's back because he'd do whatever he'd have to to protect her.
just felt instinctively that Adama was trying to spare his son from enduring anymore trauma if he could.

See, I have no doubt that Lee is the apple of his father's eye. This was said explicitly in "You can't go home again", and it was all the more powerful because it was said in a context where Adama showed that he couldn't stand the thought of losing Kara -- and still, his son, as it should be, was more important to him: "If it were you, we'd never leave". I know that Lee sometimes has trouble believing that, because when you've been raised by a witholding parent, the sudden declarations of affection can take some time to sink in.

Despite all his affection for Kara, if it came to choosing between doing something that would hurt Lee and something that would hurt Kara, I'm sure that Adama would protect Lee every time. He wouldn't like having to make that choice, and he wouldn't like hurting Kara, but I have no doubt that he'd do it.

The only reason I think that Adama isn't particularly trying to protect Lee is that Lee will be there and will have to dirty his hands too. If Adama had decided to leave Lee entirely out of it, I'd agree with you. But in Adama's plan, Lee will probably have to kill people too. Cain might not be popular with her crew, but if Kara tries to shoot her, some officers will undoubtedly try to protect her and/or kill Kara, and this is where Lee will have to shoot some of them. Not to mention that Lee is logically supposed to carry out the execution if things go south. I don't see a huge difference between "kill Cain in cold blood" and "shoot anyone who tries to prevent Kara from murdering Cain or who tries to kill her afterwards", and that's basically what Adama is expecting of Lee. And I don't think that Lee would see a big difference either. In my opinion, Adama doesn't like putting this on Kara and on Lees' shoulders, because neither of them will be innocent of this murder afterwards, but they're the only people who are in a position to do it.

(This is fanwank, of course, but I really think that if Lee had been the CAG and had been the one who could report in CIC post mission -- and take one of his pilots with him -- without arousing suspicions, the roles would have been reversed: Adama would have asked him to kill Cain and asked Kara to have his back.)
Hey, I just saw part of an interview with RM (I skipped the stuff about the finale) and 'Downloaded' was filmed, but, from the description, it sounds like the story was altered and for the better. :)
Aha, I've been waiting for you to post. :)

I'm a very bad fangirl who doesn't bother reading up on this show, just enjoys things as they come, so I rely on you to keep me informed of things. That said, I am not at all surprised to hear that this was a padded episode. About the first half really dragged for me and so much of it could have been cut or shortened to make me happy. My memory sucks, so I didn't really remember how things were left before the break, but the show did a pretty good job of catching me up at least. Pegasus - evil, got it! Are we to assume that Pegasus Chief was one whose family was killed? Because he seems just a bit too well adjusted for that to be the case. Hell, as a civilian who was conscripted and forced to abandon his family even, why is he helping? I suspect an evil plot in his future.

Damn if they didn’t make me *really* like Baltar in this episode.

Ha ha! You will all be assimilated. Seriously though, I was already a fan, but I'm happy to see a much saner Gaius. His scenes with Pegasus Six were an excellent blend of competent and crazy and I am thrilled with his "flashback" and hoping we will see a much more "present" Baltar in the future. Let there be an end to his underutilization, hooray.

One final note. Stands With a Fist on her sick/death bed just had me yelling at my screen - "Die already damnit!" Apparently I left my compassion in my other pants. But I'm liking Adama Sr. more and more. Actually everyone is growing on me, but her.

Hmmm, still no icon. There's not a lot of Yay!Baltar communities out there for some reason? Weird.
Are we to assume that Pegasus Chief was one whose family was killed? Because he seems just a bit too well adjusted for that to be the case. Hell, as a civilian who was conscripted and forced to abandon his family even, why is he helping? I suspect an evil plot in his future.

I'm a little confused as to whether his family was one that was murdered or simply left behind. Either way, yeah, I would expect him to be more traumitized by the event. I actually hope he sticks around so we can learn more about him. And the chief certainly could use the help.

Yeah, not only did we get Sane!Baltar! he was an intregal part of the script and not comic relief or used to recite some techno babble. I really hope things continue on this path for him for the rest of the season.

No comment on Laura. ;)
You know I occasionally feel a tiny bit guilty about hating a character you love, but then she actually shows up on my screen and the hate comes flooding forward until it drowns the guilt and I can happily contemplate her eventual death again.

Maybe it's because I don't really care much either way for Cain, but I am fascinated by Pegasus' Chief (I should probably learn his name then, eh?). I too hope he sticks around and I have many theories as to how he could become an awesome character. A civilian in the military? Wacky funtimes abound!
Hmmmm...

he wants to let go of the fantasy world he’s created – it doesn’t interest him anymore. Color me impressed that he’d rather live in the harsh reality he finds himself in, trying to help a very broken Six, then escape into a dream world with a beautiful woman.

I was thinking the same thing. He's finally starting to let go of his 'Crazy World' (as I like to call it) and grasping reality, now that he has a flesh and blood version of Six in front of him. How much must that piss off the Six in his head? She's always been the jealous sort... As soon as Gina goes away (and with her death wish, I'm sure that's just around the corner) will he dive back into his Crazy World again?

Sorry I don't have much intelligent to say; I'm coming down with a cold, and am now officially on Nyquil. Yay for my own Crazy World! :D
Brain!Six and Pegasus!Six competing for Gaius' attention? That's an episode I would love to see.
And could Pegasus Six be aware of Brain Six? Or will we find that Brain Six is completely independant of the collective?
I had a discussion with a friend last week about the potential love triangle of Six, Baltar, and Pegasus Six. Now that Baltar has a flesh and blood Six, why wouldn't he shift his attention/affection to her? And as you said, Six can be very jealous when it comes to Baltar. But, in this case, she'd essentially be jealous of herself. How frakked up is that?
I just don't think Adama could ask his son to carry out a murder.

Agreed. There's no doubt in my mind that Adama loves Starbuck, but Lee is his all and everything.


And if you want to know why Cain is so EVIL, blame the network. Sci-Fi felt they needed something extremely dark to justify Adama killing her. Killing women and children made the network happy. Don’t you just love cable?

<a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/danceswithwords/54708.html?thread=621492#t621492 >I knew it</a>! I hate it when the damn network execs meddle. There was already ample evidence that Roslin's assessment was on the money, without having to make a wonderfully grey and complex situation black and white. I'm still meh about Helo and Chief, and you've put the finger on it: Up until now almost every scene has been with (or about their feelings for) Sharon. I am soooooooooooooo very happy that BSG is back! I need to get some icons dammit.
*&^%$ LJ ate most of my comment
Anyway, I knew it! Damn those meddling network execs for insisting on black and white, instead of wonderfully complex grey.

You raised a good point about Helo. We haven't really had any sort of opportunity to see him as an individual, because every scene involves Sharon and/or his feelings for her.

My two faves are still Roslin and Baltar, who both really had a chance to shine in this episode.

Hurrah, the new season has begun!
Re: *&^%$ LJ ate most of my comment
Now that Helo seems to be accepted by his peers again, it's just a matter of him not feeling he needs to be with Sharon every spare minute he has so we can see what he's like without her.
I think I got you beat in the long winded department. ;)

Ha! It is to laugh. One of these days, I will learn to react to an episode in five words or less. Yesterday was not that day.

Cain’s is most troublesome to me because let’s look at what would happen. Assuming she eliminates Adama and CIC, Lee would next have to be taken out because you know he’d seek revenge. Kara would then want retribution for the killing of those closest to her. Following that we would be back to the beginning as Galactica and Pegasus crews fight and kill each other, thus providing the Cylons with a great opportunity to wipe them all out.

I think this is exactly what would happen, but I'm not so sure Cain would see it that way. She rules through fear, and she has had a lot of success making people perform acts that they find very objectionable and generally keep their mouths shut and their heads down. I think it would be very in character for her to believe--erroneously--that she could enforce her command over Galactica after taking out the CIC, because she doesn't understand that the Galactica crew obeys Adama not just because he's the top of the chain of command but because they genuinely respect and love him. That's an idea that is totally foreign to her experience.

We've already hashed out our differences over Adama's choice of assassin; as raffaella said, I think that if forced to choose between the two, Adama would always choose Lee, but that his decision in this case, which implicates both of them in murder and puts both of them in considerable danger, was driven entirely by practical considerations.
Cain probably does think that since she's been so successful keeping people in line on her ship through fear, the same tactic would work on Galactica. Boy, is she wrong. And if she paid closer attention to the logs she'd see that this is a group will rise up in light of incompetence, ignorance, and injustice.
There perhaps were moments here or there, but, overall,

I didn't realize or had forgotten that they stretched it out to two. I wondered why they had that scene with Cain and Bill looking at log books etc. in there. That felt like dead air to me at the time.

she definitely seemed to be the leader out there and while I’m thrilled to see her back in a viper, she recently was going through withdrawal and, I’d say, a nervous breakdown. Shouldn’t someone else have been in charge?

Good point!

While I get Laura/Adama’s need to get rid of Cain and Cain’s belief that Adama must go, there are numerous problems with their plans.

I don't know how Kara and Lee would make it out alive after killing Cain on her CIC either.

Baltar wants to save this Six, yet, by helping Cain, he’s providing her with a means of ending her existence as she wishes

Yep. He looked very unhappy when Cain compliments him on getting the info.

I’m glad Adama apologized to Sharon for the attack.

I didn't like that, and thought it was out of character for Adama to apologize to a cylon, especially a model that tried to kill him. These things murdered 12 planets of people. I can't see him apologizing to one for any reason.
I felt Adama was apologizing because what was done to her was representative of the some of the absolute worst behavior of the human race and it reinforced in their minds that we are an inferior species deserving of extinction. By saying 'I'm sorry' he was showing that we all don't have that same mindset - that while it's acceptable to kill a Cylon in battle or if they are an immediate threat, it's not OK to toture and rape for sport. And he may have shown we are better than them in one respect - I didn't see Sharon apologizing to Kara in 'The Farm' for what she had been through.