Asta 2

Podcast for Resurrection Ship Pt2

I finally got a chance to listen to the podcast for ‘Resurrection Ship Pt 2’ last night and was left wondering why I continue to torture myself? Then RM actually says something interesting or confirms a belief I had (there is sooooo going to be an ‘I KNEW IT!’ moment in this post) and I realize I put myself through this for scraps of knowledge. Not to mention, if danceswithwords is watching 8 seasons of ‘Stargate’ so don’t have to, the least I can do is listen to RM congratulate himself for 44 minutes each week. ;p



Once ‘Resurrection Ship’ was expanded to two episodes there was more emphasis placed on Lee’s storyline. I still have to believe this can never be a bad thing. ;)

The writers never considered destroying the Pegasus because that’s what the audience expected to happen. So, the show won’t go where the audience expects it to? I’ll just leave it at that.

The imagery of Lee floating in water was Michael Rymer’s idea. I think he’s the fangirls newest bestest friend. :)

There was a lot more fighting during the Helo/Tyrol scene with Tyrol getting in a good shot against one of their abusers, but the scene was edited to create more suspense. Because torturing the leads is fun!

Now here is where I went "I KNEW IT!" The Cain/Starbuck drinking scene was written and filmed after principle photography was completed. HA! It was felt that Cain and Starbuck ‘sparked’ and were developing an interesting relationship that they wished to explore further once the episode was expanded to two. They also wanted to attempt to show more of Cain’s humanity and get a handle on her philosophy. That’s all well and good, but it still flies in the face of some of what came before.

The Lee/Adama scene was also a late addition - a moment where he could question his father and his actions which are apathetical to what they both stand for.

In a scene that was cut, after Lee leaves Adama’s quarters he heads to the ready room where we see him drinking alone until Dee comes in. While they felt it helped to set up their burgeoning relationship (and would have helped to explain Dee lurking out his quarters later, imho) it was deemed too repetitive with what had come before.

The accident with the Blackbird was just that, an accidental collision with Raptor debris, and not an error on Lee’s part. Interestingly, the original intent was to have, as Lee floats through space, the dead crew of the Raptor floating by. He’s surrounded by them - images of death are all around. It was to inform his desire to want to kill himself/die. Ultimately, it became too difficult to film and edit, However, I have to say it would have helped *a lot* to explain Lee’s decision.

After reading an early version of the script in which Gina and Baltar kiss, Tricia left Ron a note stating that Gina, as a victim of gang rape and torture, would not be open to a lot of physical contact. (Gee, ya think?) As soon as she made that comment RM knew she was right and he feels that the small gesture of holding hands is much more powerful.

As many of us have already stated, the water Jamie was floating in was very cold, but he never complained. The scenes were to be much more complex. We were to see a woman on shore, representative of a past girlfriend, as well as Lee swimming, struggling to get to shore. He was also to see faces of other people in his life. Again, it all became too much.

Um, they don’t how Gina got off ship and RM’s response to that is, and I quote, "Who the fuck cares?" - all that matters is she got off ship by end of the episode. O.....K.....

Cain was originally killed in CIC. There was to be a shot of Baltar calling Adama from there as he is surrounded by the dead bodies of the CIC personal. It was decided that is was over the top.

Another sequence that was shot much later was Cain’s funeral. This, for me, again, makes sense in that the scene doesn’t make a lot of sense. Further complicating my view on this is RM’s belief that Kara was correct in coming to conclusion that they were safer with Cain. Huh?

Lee’s attempted suicide, death wish, whatever, will inform who is for the rest of the season and the places that it will send him. He had an epiphany in space and was then pulled back. They want to explore how it screws up the character and how he deals with it.

EJO kissing Mary was improvised by EJO on the set. RM describes it as affection between the two characters, a result of her giving him this last gift before she dies, but he didn’t seem to imply that there was anything romantic about it.
  • Current Mood: indifferent indifferent
"Who the fuck cares?"

*snerk* Clearly RM is not as in tune with science fiction fandom as he thinks he is.
You would have thought that a man who spent as much time working in the 'Star Trek' franchise as he did would have some idea how nitpicky and fanatical the fans can be?!
(just surfed in from galacticanews, couldn't resist commenting)

Actually, considering how spectacularly the Star Trek franchise managed to sabotage itself over the past ten years (two words: "Enterprise" and "Nemesis"), they seem to be a model for how not to stay in touch with your fans. I know Ron Moore's involvement with ST predated most of the recent ST-sucking. Still, certain things that RM says on podcasts give me the same "WTF?" reaction that I get when reading a Rick Berman interview about anything relating to Star Trek.

So, Ron Moore ought to know better, but I'm not sure that he does. A lot of BSG's strengths come from when they go to places that the fans don't expect them to, but the weaknesses seem to come with plot holes that you can't get away with in the nitpicky world of sci-fi fandom. :-/
Actually, considering how spectacularly the Star Trek franchise managed to sabotage itself over the past ten years (two words: "Enterprise" and "Nemesis"), they seem to be a model for how not to stay in touch with your fans.

You forgot 'Voyager'! ;) One of the things I loved about Dragon*Con was hearing LeVar and Marina rip 'Nemesis' to shreds and blast Paramount for what they've done to the franchise. (Personally, I curse Rick Berman out often, but I suppose Paramount is to blame for not canning his ass.) And Conner Trineer was certainly not happy with how they handled the ST:TNG reunion final ep of 'Enterprise'. Poor guy had the worst Trek death ever and I'm including Tasha being done in by a hefty bag. OK, I shall stop venting now....

So, yeah, Ron apparently has not learned as much as I gave him credit for from his 'Trek' days. This is a guy who has openly complained about how out of touch that franchise became with the show's history and how they often overlooked established facts thus screwing up continuity. Yet, he's willing to leave plot holes because he doesn't want to be bothered having to figure them out? I don't get it.

A lot of BSG's strengths come from when they go to places that the fans don't expect them to, but the weaknesses seem to come with plot holes that you can't get away with in the nitpicky world of sci-fi fandom.

::nods head in agreement::

I also think BSG benefits from a very strong group of actors who really care about their characters development and, unlike many other shows, are allowed input. Has there been an ep yet where Ron hasn't talked about the cast ad libbing something?
You forgot 'Voyager'! ;)

Well, I figured I'd play it safe and stick with the two that were objective failures (getting cancelled and/or losing money). I have no idea why, but for some reason, Voyager was allowed to complete its run.

Poor guy had the worst Trek death ever and I'm including Tasha being done in by a hefty bag.

*snickers*

OK, I shall stop venting now...

Eh, some venting is allowed. ST basically blew off its own fans and then committed a gruesome public suicide that took an agonizing decade to complete. So, a little bit of bitterness is understandable.

I also think BSG benefits from a very strong group of actors who really care about their characters development and, unlike many other shows, are allowed input.

Good point - Not that there weren't some good actors on ST (at least back in the good ol' days), but it seemed like they were much more passive than Edward, Mary, Jamie, Tricia, and company have been.

Of course, the fact that BSG characters are supposed to develop makes it hard to compare the two series. I mean, I'm sure Patrick Stewart could have taken Piccard in all sorts of neat directions, but that's not the kind of show that ST:TNG was trying to be. Really, the only thing about the TNG characters that changed from season to season was Riker's facial hair, while the changing character relationships in BSG is practically the entire focus of the show. (There are occasionally some space battles, too, but as "Resurrection Ship, Part II" made pretty clear, those are not the point. Which is a pity, because I really wanted a better view of those battlestars and basestars throwing down. But, I digress...)

So, BSG is trying to do things that you just didn't see in ST, and I think it's precisely those things that give the BSG actors to show off how good they are.
I have no idea why, but for some reason, Voyager was allowed to complete its run.

I'm going with the theory that UPN was a brand, spanking new network in need of PR and were much more generous with their time and money. It also explains why 'The X-Files' had a successful run. If it premiered on FOX today it would be six or seven eps than bu-bey.

BSG is definitely much more character driven than ST. Of course, ST could have seen much more evolution with it's characters had Roddenbury, Berman, etc. been willing to break the mold at some point. I do think Data had some character growth which I credit to Brent Spiner because he was severly limited in what he could do playing an emotionless (without the chip) android.
Um, they don’t how Gina got off ship and RM’s response to that is, and I quote, "Who the fuck cares?" - all that matters is she got off ship by end of the episode. O.....K.....

Moron. I know of at least two people who no longer care if they catch the new eps because of his attitude from these podcasts. They can't be completely isolated cases... Lucky for little Ronnie, neither of them is Nielsen.
While I was initially surprised by his attitude, I then reminded myself that most great shows have a moron behind them. ;) Nothing he's said has pissed me off to the point I'd give up on the show (there's still a hell of a lot of quality on screen thanks to others), but I certainly understand if people have gotten put off by his opinions and thrown up their hands in surrender.
I agree with repr0b8 that the PODcasts for the most part are ment to annoy people and create buzz about upcoming episodes. So you have to look at them in the correct light.
Bob
They've definitely helped to create buzz. Is BSG the only show to do weekly podcasts? I just wish RM would give others a chance to speak. I'd really love to hear the actors talk about the eps. And I seemed to recall enjoying Michael Rymer's comments in the commentary for the mini. These were, in large part, *his* eps.
This is true, I still think looking at the PODcasts and teh episodes a lot fo things said have to be taken in a certain way.
Bob W
Yeah especially if you are splitting an ep up into 2, you should be able to make your story line threads easier to resolve, not more difficult.

Good job.
I guess they were safer with Caine unless they pissed her off or were civilians without essential knowledge or something.

RM needs to get a grip before his show starts a slow spin out of control. Sloppiness is an easy habit to get into.
I guess they were safer with Caine unless they pissed her off or were civilians without essential knowledge or something.

I think Kara may have been safer with her, but everyone else would have been pretty much screwed. :p

I was a bit surprised by RM's casual attitude regarding key plot points. My feeling is that this ep was finished rather late in the season, after everything but the finale was done, and they perhaps they just wanted to be done with it. It's somewhat understandable from an emotional POV, but, yeah, you cannot let it happen on a regular basis.
I agree there were quite a few scenes that didn't make sense or were not thought out totally
Bob
Hmmm. Honestly, as much as I don't object to shirtless Jamie Bamber, I could have done with a little less of the floating, and a little more of a couple of the scenes that got cut (the floating bodies, the thing with Dee, etc.). Though actually, the extended floating remix (with the woman, the swimming, etc) would have been more meaningful, I think. As it was, it was kind of a cool image, but it didn't really do a lot for me, especially considering that I think the time could have been better used elsewhere.

And though they've made some mistakes, it's always kind of a relief to hear some of the things that do get vetoed, like the "Adama surrounded by bodies" bit. This show walks a very fine line with its darkness, and it's good that thus far they've stayed on the right side of that line (IMO).

I still don't get Kara's speech about Cain.

I will be very interested to see where they go with Lee, and I remain hopeful that maybe it will be explained better in the future. :)
I'm really torn on the floating imagery. On a purely superficial level, I like it and, unlike the towel scene, I didn't find it gratuitous. I agree, it would have been more meaningful had they included some of the other imagery that was mentioned, however, without going into spoiler territory, it may have caused some continuity issues in later episodes depending how they ultimately chose to approach those stories.

The cut Dee scene would certainly have made her later appearance less jarring. The floating bodies, while providing visual evidence of why he would choose to give up and strengthening the narrative of his story, I understand for technical reasons why the imagery had to go. It came down to time and money they didn't have and, perhaps, it would have been too dark emotiionally. As you said, the show walks a fine line when it comes to darkness and, thus far, they stayed on the right side.

I think the Lee story will ultimately tie together, but I do think it's unfortunate that people are left scratching their heads because so many pieces of the puzzle haven't been shown yet.
Thanks for taking one for the team once again.

The Lee/Adama scene was also a late addition - a moment where he could question his father and his actions which are apathetical to what they both stand for.

This I find kind of mildly horrifying, because it was the only thing in the episode that, for me, came close to explaining why Lee ended up feeling so alone and isolated. I'm glad it was added.

I'm also glad that Tricia Helfer is a woman of much sense and understanding, and that RM listens to her. Not only would having her act sexually been incredibly jarring given what she'd been through, one of the things that's really interesting about Baltar/Gina vs. Baltar/Six is that Baltar/Gina is completely devoid of physical components--Baltar doesn't have that selfish sexual motivation with her at all.

Um, they don’t how Gina got off ship and RM’s response to that is, and I quote, "Who the fuck cares?" - all that matters is she got off ship by end of the episode. O.....K.....

*facepalm*
I *loved* the Lee/Adama scene and it was so pivitol to the epsiode. It provided some reasoning behind Lee's state of mind (though not nearly enough in my opinion), gave Jamie/Lee that great moment when he realized that two of the people he loved and trusted most are not the people he thought they were, and it's the first father/son moment we've had in some time. To think that it was an after thought is pretty shocking.

It's interesting that Balter/Gina is devoid of any physical components when he finally has a physical manifestation of the woman he loves.

*facepalm*

Yeah, that was pretty much my reaction. :/
Thank you! Now I don't have to listen to RM congratulate himself...

I'm so glad he listened to Tricia on the kissing thing. Sometimes I think it's the actors who make the show so great, at least partly because of their contributions to (very important) character details.

I never found it hard to get my head round Lee's downward spiral. Sure it was sudden, but I think if I'd been through what he has in recent days, and months for that matter, I'd lose the plot a lot sooner. But, I don't wear the uniform, and never will, etc. etc.!

Yay it's Friday here in NZ! Though we have to wait a few days for downloads...
Sometimes I think it's the actors who make the show so great, at least partly because of their contributions to (very important) character details.

Absolutely. I know Jamie helped to develop Lee's backstory (how much will come into play on the show remains to be seen) and it was he who mentioned to David Eik that Lee should kiss Kara in 'Home'. I also know that he and EJO came up with the idea and choreographed the boxing scene in KLG. The actors have added a lot of nuances to their characters.

Lee's suicidal tendancies weren't a complete shock to me. We've seen him down before and I thought at some point the weight of everything he's been through would become too much for him to bare. I just felt we didn't see enough build up to that point and I have a hard time believing he would have left Kara in such a dangerous position. But, yeah, it wasn't OMG! Where did this come from?!
The boxing scene is awesome. KLG Part 1 is one of my favourite episodes.

I have a hard time believing he would have left Kara in such a dangerous position.

I didn't have so much of a problem with this at the time. I thought that dying and being resuscitated was a pretty good 'note from the nurse' in that situation! In retrospect, I am not 100% sure, but at the time, everything that he did rang pretty true to me.

Love your icon!