Asta 2

BSG Ep 18: Downloaded


I was exhausted last night by the time BSG came on and I thought that had something to do with my rather ‘Meh’ attitude about the episode. So I watched it again this afternoon and…..I’m still feeling ‘Meh’. That’s not to say I hated it, that it pissed me off, or that I was bored to death – there just wasn’t anything present to enthrall me. And before anyone says ‘Oh, I know why’, no, it had nothing to do with the complete lack of Lee. As much as I love seeing the guy, he really had no place in this episode. At best he *maybe* could have been in the scene with Adama, Laura, Baltar and Tigh. But I don’t see how his input would have been vital nor changed the decision that was ultimately made. Tigh probably shouldn’t have been there either but I’m rationalizing his and Tyrol’s appearance as a salary thing. Unlike the above the title performers, I don’t think they get paid unless they appear in an episode.

While ‘Downloaded’ didn’t hold my attention as other episodes have, it has had me contemplating some of the revelations made and questions raised since I first saw it last night.

The Cylons do seem to have a collective mentality, not on par with the Borg, but individuality doesn’t seem to be encouraged. D’Anna refers to CapricaSix as a hero of the Cylon, singular. And she’s displeased Sharon is still calling herself Sharon rather than Eight. The Baltar in Six’s head is right; D’Anna is out to destroy these two “war heroes” because they represent something that could lead to the downfall of the Cylon – human sympathy. Their love for two humans has changed their perspective on the war and their voices will now be heard.

Now why do Six and Sharon have such strong ties to humanity? Yes, we know love plays a large role in it, but where did the love come from and why does it affect them as it does? After all, we have the other Sharon on Galactica, who I do believe loves Helo, but has yet to condemn her race for what it has done and continues to question humanity’s existence. Is it because she was programmed to love Helo? It doesn’t negate her feelings, but it could explain why she hasn’t completely severed her ties to the Cylons. Where as with the other two, their love grew organically from the situations they found themselves in. Sharon, as a sleeper agent, had a completely blank slate in which to form emotional attachments. Six, while she knew who she was, may have worked independently for two years in order to keep her cover. Her relationship with Baltar started out as an assignment, but she grew to love the man. And these two, who did so much to assist in the Cylon quest for supremacy, are now closer to humanity because of the Cylon plan.

Let’s look at the flip side in all this. I’m beginning to wonder who it is that Helo loves. He was in love with Sharon before the attacks – with the Sharon we are seeing on Caprica. Perhaps it’s because of that Sharon that he often appears blind to some of the Sharon on Galactica’s more troubling attributes.

And then there is Anders, who after spending a short amount of time with Six and Sharon asks, “What kind of people are you?” What happened to “skin jobs” and “toasters”?

So, where do we go from here? Six and Sharon seem to be on their way to leading their own resistance movement on Caprica. And with their new found celebrity, some Cylons will listen. Will we find out there is a glitch in the Cylon programming that makes them susceptible to free thinking? And can Cylons not help but be affected by their time spent with humanity?

I would love, love, love for CapricaSix and Baltar to come face to face (and for comedic relief their imaginary counterparts as well). The thing is, if they come into contact with the real thing after all this time, will their feelings be the same? Both have changed (Six for the better, Baltar for the worse, imho) and the person that they love is that of an image they have fostered in their head.

I’m still wondering if Baltar could be a Cylon. How could he have survived the attacks when Six was killed? And could the reason be for them being in each others heads be because signals got crossed in the transferring of their consciousness?

As for some random items….

Things that made me go ‘Huh?’:

Sharon explains how her mother gave her the elephants before she left for the fleet academy. Didn’t they die in a mining accident when she was a child? That was followed by the picture showing her with Tyrol, Lee, and others aboard Galactica. OK, she didn’t serve with Lee on Galactica until after the attacks. They couldn’t find another pic to use?

The bomb Anders set collapsed a building. But luckily he was protected by the car just a few yards from the bomb. And that open stairwell saved Six, Sharon, and D’Anna. O….K…..

D’Anna commenting that Kara was on Caprica a couple weeks ago. I have no words for that one.

Where did the dead baby come from? Was it Maya’s???


Things that didn’t irritate me as much as I expected:

Again with the Previouslies. It was obvious they used old footage with new voiceovers. On the other hand, I could except it here because we haven’t seen any of Caprica since ‘Home Pt 2’ and the point is, up until now, we weren’t suppose to know what was happening with the Cylons. So, yes, please inform me they are “rebuilding Caprica”.

I can also accept the jumping back in time thing again since I think it was important we see exactly when Six and Sharon were reborn.


Things I really enjoyed:

Tricia and James were terrific. Especially Tricia. It amazes me how she can continue to give each new Six a unique persona. Put them all in a room together and I could easily tell them apart.

The way they made ImaginaryBaltar in Sharon’s apartment creepier by running the film of him in reverse.

Tricia’s reaction to Sharon revealing Baltar is still alive.

D’Anna: “Humans don’t respect life the way we do.” Muwah!

Cottle, as Sharon is giving birth, criticizing the Cylons for not upgrading the plumbing. Hee!

Again, I think Laura made a bad decision that will come back to bite her in the ass. Either that kid is still going to end up in Cylon hands or she’ll be dealing with the mother from hell with Sharon. But I’ll love watching her recover from the mess she’s made.
  • Current Mood: blah Blah - but unrelated to BSG
Didn’t they die in a mining accident when she was a child?

I distinctly remember her telling... Boxer? Boxey? That kid, in the miniseries. I have no idea what's up with that photo, unless those are adoptive/foster parents. Maybe.

They could be foster parents, but then all she would have had to say was "My foster mother". I hate to think they were that sloppy with canon. Maybe Ron addresses it in the podcast that I haven't gotten to yet. Or maybe we are to assume that there was a glitch in the downloading. ;p
I enjoyed this episode a lot more than you did, but I was bothered by some of the same details, especially Sharon's past. The best part of the show for me was Baltar/Caprica Six, which works so much better for me than the reverse on the Galactica.

It seems to me inevitable that the Cylons would both want to be human and hate many of the implications. The concept of Cylons with real people emotions reminds me of Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy, where they gave Marvin emotions and he turned out to be paranoid and clinically depressed. They're going to mess things up just as badly as the humans do! Wheee!
I have to say I liked the Baltar in Six's head much better than the Baltar we've seen of late. He definitely was manipulating her, but in doing so he's helping the human race which is what the real Baltar should be doing. Of course, as a woman in love, Six has a more positive view of him than the rest of us. ;)

They're going to mess things up just as badly as the humans do! Wheee!

Yeah. When Six bashed D'Anna's skull in I thought 'You're so screwed'. I now have no clue how this series will end. Will the humans defeat the Cylons? Will they find a way to live in peace?
I now have no clue how this series will end.

Isn't that great? I actually try not to guess. Reminds me of the years I spent thinking that closing the hellmouth would be a great way to end BtVS. I was surprised when it happened, because I'm always wrong!
Cottle, as Sharon is giving birth, criticizing the Cylons for not upgrading the plumbing. Hee!

Haha! That totally cracked me up. Cottle gets some of the best lines in the show!

I would love, love, love for CapricaSix and Baltar to come face to face (and for comedic relief their imaginary counterparts as well).

That would be fabulous. This imaginary Baltar completely brings a whole new dimension to the imaginary Six. I won't even begin to get into all of the questions this raises, what with the raging ache in my head already.

So, another question. Caprica Six says they have maybe 36 hours before D'Anna loads into a new body. Yeah, that gives them enough time to get out of the rubble, etc. but how do they expect to sway other Cylons once D'Anna comes back and tells everyone what they did? I guess I'm just not getting what they hope to accomplish in 36 hours.

Ooh, and another thing: Is the post-nuke Caprica Six, the one that beats the crap out of Sharon, the same Caprica Six here? It would explain the angsting she does when she & Doral talk about Sharon's love for Helo.
Caprica Six says they have maybe 36 hours before D'Anna loads into a new body. Yeah, that gives them enough time to get out of the rubble, etc. but how do they expect to sway other Cylons once D'Anna comes back and tells everyone what they did? I guess I'm just not getting what they hope to accomplish in 36 hours.

I wondered about that too. I mean, they certainly have time to put some distance between themselves and the rest of the Cylons in the city, but what else can they do to create a significant shift in the Cylon way of thinking? Could a televised speech start the ball rolling? Or, and I'm thinking back to the the ST:TNG episode 'I, Borg', do they have the ability to transfer their thoughts to others - implant the idea that humans are not the EVOL.

Is the post-nuke Caprica Six, the one that beats the crap out of Sharon, the same Caprica Six here? It would explain the angsting she does when she & Doral talk about Sharon's love for Helo.

Hmmmm. I'm thinking no, but that could make an interesting scenerio. :)
That’s not to say I hated it, that it pissed me off, or that I was bored to death – there just wasn’t anything present to enthrall me.

*G* Somehow, I know exactly what you mean.

Again, I think Laura made a bad decision that will come back to bite her in the ass.

In all my mehness, I can't quite work up a moral stand on the issue, but I thought it wasn't the worst thing she could have done politically. I agree that there will be repercussions (though -- see my post -- I'd be FINE if we never saw that baby again), but I understand that she didn't want to set up Sharon, Helo and the baby as a happy nuclear family somewhere; even danger from any Cylon/Sharon plan aside, it'd be a constant source of unrest if the fleet knew there was a Cylon baby. She doesn't want to airlock it -- which I liked; you can take the "good people doing bad things" too far! -- and she can't leave it with Sharon; she doesn't want Sharon to spend the rest of her time trying to find out where they took her baby... Sucks for Sharon, but not as much as other things could have sucked.

Again with the Previouslies. It was obvious they used old footage with new voiceovers.

I was getting very annoyed with the trend to include previouslies we'd never seen before (I take it that wasn't just me, then?), but the voiceovers didn't annoy me; it was more like condensed versions of things they actually had said at various points, so, okay.
Putting aside I'm not sure Laura or the show could come back from airlocking a baby, I was happy to see her take the stance of nurture over nature. She doesn't believe the baby is inherently bad, but she does have a fear, a justifiable one given what she knows right now, that if raised by Sharon the child could prove a danger to the fleet. From the other side, I can empathize with Sharon and her maternal instincts. She obviously loves her child and would do anything to protect it. My fear is what she'll do once she finds out (and I'm sure she will) that her child was stolen from her.

There has been a lot of discussion about previouslies that were, in fact, not shown previously. And in the prior cases it was some very important information that should have and could have been shown. With 'Downloaded', I'm much more forgiving. What the Cylons have been doing has been unknown to anyone in the fleet, therefore, the audiance too would have no knowledge of it. So, yes, I see the necessity for bringing us up to speed and that was the best and most concise way to go about it.
I've skipped over your review and all comments, coz ya know.

This is just to say that after last night's ep, I suddenly have respect for Tricia Helfer. It's the ep where Adama and Roslin reunite on Kobol. Helfer does her extended Kara imitation. Man, she was perfect.

So now I know. I like the actor, I hate the character... whose numeral I don't seem able to remember.
I was rather shocked to see you here. ;)

I actually asked Tricia about her Kara imitation in that episode because she did such a magnificent job with it and she said she wasn't imitating Kara/Katee! She said she was just being herself - that is the way she looks and acts most of the time and after seeing her at the Con I have to agree with that assessment.

Let me say, if you are becoming more a fan of Six after seeing 'Home Pt 2', you will be very impressed with some of her future work. I'm blown away by her more each week. I really need to get a Six icon...
Wrong wrong and right. (will post my thoughts on my blog later today after church)

Except for a few items like how Does reborn Sharon get a shot of Galatica crew or family after the nuking of her planet, and some detail items like that, I think they finally returned to a manner of story telling that worked in season 1.

We want to see in a war what happens on all fronts, the perspective of the "enemey" is of interest, we want to be informed </s>voters
As I said, I don't think this was a bad episode, actually, it was much better in execution then other episodes in the second half of the season, and I found the questions raised by this Six and Sharon very interesting. However, because I'm not as invested in these characters as I am others and because I have not been dwelling on the Cylon side of things, this episode just wasn't as entertaining to me as it was to others. I'm just giving my perspective which I don't think qualifies as wrong.
D’Anna refers to CapricaSix as a hero of the Cylon, singular.

I should have known your sharp ears would pick this out too. I recently rewatched "Epiphanies," and the Peace Now movement uses the same terminology. Interesting, no?

Let’s look at the flip side in all this. I’m beginning to wonder who it is that Helo loves. He was in love with Sharon before the attacks – with the Sharon we are seeing on Caprica. Perhaps it’s because of that Sharon that he often appears blind to some of the Sharon on Galactica’s more troubling attributes.

That's a really interesting possibility--that he was interposing his feelings for and understanding of the Sharon he'd known so long onto the person he met up with on Caprica, and has never been able to shake the way he's melded their identities. Plus, this Sharon was the version where he got the girl; the other one chose Tyrol. That would be powerful incentive to believe in this Sharon for someone like Helo, who is so ruled by love.

Sharon explains how her mother gave her the elephants before she left for the fleet academy. Didn’t they die in a mining accident when she was a child?

I was wondering about that took, but the fleet academy thing was so mumbled that I thought I might have misheard. She strongly implied to Boxey that her parents had died when she was young--younger than fleet academy age, at least.

Where did the dead baby come from? Was it Maya’s?</I I think that was strongly implied. The actress who played Maya looks exactly like this woman who did late-night ads for a Bay Area "singles" line that promised men fun, flirty, attractive women to chat with who were in no way only talking to them for the $3.95 a minute, no sirree, but only because they're fun-loving gals who love to talk. I found that distracting.
LJ somehow cut off my the last of my comment--Maya said she'd just lost a baby, so I think there's every reason to believe it was hers.
I'm going to concur because it's the scenerio that makes the most sense to me.
I recently rewatched "Epiphanies," and the Peace Now movement uses the same terminology. Interesting, no?

Interesting, Yes! And I failed to make the connection. As you made mention on your LJ, with Gina as the head of the movement (or at least a key figure) it makes sense that they would be using the expression 'The Cylon'. As frakked up as I thought their logic was, if they only knew they were playing right into the Cylon hands.

Plus, this Sharon was the version where he got the girl; the other one chose Tyrol. That would be powerful incentive to believe in this Sharon for someone like Helo, who is so ruled by love.

I was watching '33' and 'Water' at work today (don't ask) and we see Helo go from the shock at seeing Sharon there on Caprica to his happiness that she came back for him. I don't think he's given himself the opportunity to process who it is he's really with because he fears what he may discover. And let's not forget, he wasn't choked up at hearing about Sharon's murder on Galactica - the one he actually knew far longer and better.

I'm also wondering what will happen if the new/old Sharon ends up back on Galactica. She'll immediately search for Tyrol, but will he reject her? And it doesn't seem she knows the other her is now involved with Helo, who was secretly in love with *her*, and that they have a child together. The potential drama!
She'll immediately search for Tyrol, but will he reject her? And it doesn't seem she knows the other her is now involved with Helo, who was secretly in love with *her*, and that they have a child together. The potential drama!

The duplicate people thing has the potential to blow Days of Our Galactica wide open!
The Cylons do seem to have a collective mentality, not on par with the Borg, but individuality doesn’t seem to be encouraged.

I would think they would have to, given how they copy themselves in order to "procreate." Plus, starting from an artificial intelligence environment, it makes sense that this is how they would evolve.

Where as with the other two, their love grew organically from the situations they found themselves in.

Ooh, that's an interesting theory. I hadn't thought of why these two in particular; I like your explanation.

Six for the better, Baltar for the worse, imho

I've been pondering this. Because, frankly, pre-Six Baltar was a slimy weasel; at least post-Six, Baltar has learned to love and care for someone not him. His ends are worse (actively supporting the cylons instead of unwillingly), but he as a person seems slightly better. Not that he's someone I'd want to hang out with in either case. Heh. And I agree he could still be a cylon.

As for Sharon's parents - yeah, I've got nothing for that. I didn't even think about it until you mentioned it, though. And the timeline. *shakes head*
Doing a cathup-read on your posts, since I've now watched Downloaded and LDYB Part 1.

I giggled about the 'meh' response to this ep, because I had it myself! I thought it was just me. I really fidgeted in this ep, whereas I usually sit riveted to the screen. Ah well, I shall embrace my 'meh'ness, although I initially beat myself up about it--after all, this ep was full of lots of revelations, and shouldn't I be all intrigued? I was, but the experience of watching the ep just wasn't that great.

Total agreement about Laura's ass-biting decisions: that baby is a time bomb!
Considering the characters I'm most attached to were either MIA or relegated to supporting roles, I was emotionally detached from this episode. On an intellectual level there was much to appreciate, but nothing for me to obsess or angst over. ;)