Asta 2

Well, I Haven't Talked About Buffy in Awhile

I've been rewatching Season 7 of Buffy - two episodes a weekend - figuring I'd be finished by the time Angel premieres. Got a bit ahead of schedule this weekend and have now watched through Sleeper.



I liked Season 7 for the most part. Sure, it had its problems, but what season hasn't? Having rewatched the first eight episodes again (without long breaks in between) I'm enjoying the season even more. There are several exceedingly good episodes (Beneath You, Same Time, Same Place, Help) and one that could probably rank amongst Buffy's all time greats - Conversations with Dead People. Within these and the rest of the eps are some marvelous character moments both great and small.

Whatever problems with the season that there were seem to lie in the main story arc involving the FE. And the problems may have begun with Sleeper. I like Sleeper - a lot. But, the revelation of Spike's killing and why raises many questions and I'm not certain they were ever really answered.

Actually, the first signs of plotholes may have been planted in CwDP. Why did the FE need Andrew and Jonathon to dig up the seal? Couldn't it have had Caleb lend him a couple Bringers to do the job? Enough of them were around to kidnap and bleed Spike a couple of eps later. I can seem to let that go because it was a way to bring Jonathon and Andrew into the story and set them on their own redemptive paths.

But, the FE's intent in Sleeper confuses me. Does it just get it's jollies screwing with people? I can actually except that. It's successfully scaring the crap out of Willow and Dawn, keeping the Slayer off balance, and tormenting Spike. Spike, already living with guilt via the voices of his victims, now must deal with the FE in his head. He's a puppet forced to kill without consent or knowledge.

Yet, it seems the FE has more plans for Spike then just additional craziness. It specifically tells Spike after he phones Buffy "It's not time yet. You're going against the plan, but we can make it work." Then we proceed to the house, Spike being triggered and attacking Buffy, the mass vamp attack (On a side note, don't vamps rise after twenty four hours? Some of those guys and gals had been buried for days. I know, shut up Asta, you're nitpicking.), then Spike coming to his senses after licking Buffy :p.

Now the tables seem to turn. The FE having failed with Spike switches gears and patiently waits for Buffy to take out Spike. None of what has happened, or it believes is about to, will apparently spoil it's grand plan. And while we know now what the plan was - open the Hellmouth, unleash the Ubervamps, and bring Hell on earth - I'm not seeing how any of this had anything to do with that.

There are several possibilities. The FE used Spike greatly increase the vampire population in order to keep Buffy occupied while the FE put the real plan into action. It used Spike knowing he'd be revealed as 'evil' eventually and she'd have to kill him. Which, emotionally, would have devestated her and kept her off balance while the FE reaked havoc. And if Buffy failed to fall into the trap, it would simply have Spike kill Buffy eliminating it's greatest threat.

I argued all season the FE needed one of them eliminated because, in the end, it would be both of them, together, to save the world. I was right about that. Without the two of them unleashing their various powers, the FE would have succeeded. Still, if my theories were correct, ME could have made their intent a bit clearer. Or, if I'm wrong, they could have made their intent clearer. ;)

I've rambled long enough and am probably leading you to question my original statement about liking this season. I think it's time to go to bed. :)

ETA: chase820 just posted some interesting stuff about the Tampa Con. For some reason I thought James' son would be older. Oh, and I was right...again! (I love being right ;) James is shooting some of his stuff for Angel in advance because Joss was kind enough to release him to do the film. If this film will further James' career, I'm all for less Spike time. :)

Another ETA: Just finished watching Dead Zone. What the frell? Next week Johnny helps hunt down Osama? Puh-leeze. In the premier he faced down a tornado. Last week he stopped a 21st century plague. And now this?
  • Current Mood: confused confused
I would have replied to this sooner, but we had a "micro burst" about six o'clock this evening! In about 10 minutes we had rain, thunder, lightning, and very high winds that knocked parts of two trees almost on the house (clipped the gutter). We got off easy. Our neighbors two doors down had two trees fall on their front porch and covered their car in the driveway. We just got our power back, yay ComEd!

Now, onto the important stuff :)

I loved season seven, and have very few quibbles about it. But as usual you raise some very good points. I watched Selfless again (great ep, Emma rocked), and in the one scene Spike had, he said something very interesting, and I felt was also important. When he was being consoled by the nicer Buffy(or Buffy/the First), he said, "I'm in trouble Buffy". What kind of trouble? Could be he was partially remembering what he'd been doing - being controlled and killing, but since he was in the basement he was still quite crazy, not able to distinguish between reality and fantasy, but he must have had an inkling. It was once Buffy got him out of the basement that the barriers starting falling, and he was, after being prodded by Buffy, beginning to really remember what he had been doing. When I think of that sentence,what happens after makes more sense. I agreed with you that the FE knew that it would have to eliminate one or both of them to succeed, and it failed at both.

The FE did have a grand plan - and would have succeeded if Buffy hadn't believed in Spike and helped him. Because of that, he was there to help her when she'd had her own crisis. He gave her confidence and strengh, which enabled her think clearly and come up with a plan that foiled the FE. Of course, we give an assist to good old Wolfram and Hart for the amulet that Angel was supposed to wear :) Spike wore it (another foiled plan?), did the clean up and died a hero.

Regarding Jonathan and Andrew - did the FE give them the dreams, or the Powers That Be? Because it's clear Jonathan wants to reveal the seal as evidence to show Buffy. Andrew, as we found out, was also being manipulated by the FE. Could be we have a case of the two big powers still trying to balance the scales.

I read Chase's account, it was very interesting. I'm glad he feels comfortable enough to mention his son, and also that he sets limits as to what he'll do for fans when he's with him. Good for James. Also glad, as you are, that he's thinking of his career outside AtS! :) I like seeing you happy about being right :)
Regarding Jonathan and Andrew - did the FE give them the dreams, or the Powers That Be? Because it's clear Jonathan wants to reveal the seal as evidence to show Buffy. Andrew, as we found out, was also being manipulated by the FE. Could be we have a case of the two big powers still trying to balance the scales.

Interesting thought Lynn. :) We know Andrew and Jonathan were working with different goals in mind. And they were both led there. Since evil is everywhere, it's also possible that the First was aware of Jonathan's intent and, knowing it could get to Andrew, just decided to let them do it's dirty work for it.
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Interesting thought Lynn. :) We know Andrew and Jonathan were working with different goals in mind. And they were both led there. Since evil is everywhere, it's also possible that the First was aware of Jonathan's intent and, knowing it could get to Andrew, just decided to let them do it's dirty work for it.


It's my opinion the FE just can't get good help nowadays. :-)Interesting theory Lynn about the balancing. Though I think that the FE was behind the dreams of both Jonathan and Andrew. It just maybe didn't count on Jonathan wanting to "do good" with his knowledge. Kind of like how the FE underestimated Spike turning to Buffy for help, and getting it. Of course the FE adjusted it's game plan and let Andrew do all the dirty work, just as it tried to adjust it's plan in regards to Spike running off the the light side.


Cindy
I don't think it was ever specified in Buffyverse when vamps rise. In fact, there seems to be quite a discrepancy on that front. Spike and Angel dug their way out of their graves. Buffy has slayed vampires in a morgue and in a funeral home. So it seems to be anywhere from a few hours to a few days. Joss was never one for the mathy stuff.
You are right about that Saava. Wonder if embalming has any effect on the undead process? ;)

And perhaps I'm thinking of something mentioned is Season 1. Which, I shouldn't take anything from that season as canon. Ya know, with Spike being almost 200 years old and being sired by Angel and all. :p