Asta 2

Podcast for 'Torn'

Sorry for the delay, I had heard that the podcast for ‘Torn’ was painful to listen to so I procrastinated. No, Ron wasn’t being more annoying than usual ;), but the format was different. Ron took the podcast on the road and recorded it on a visit to Cornell University in a class full of students who had just watched the ep with him and were allowed to ask questions. This was both good and bad. The students who were obviously fans of the show asked some questions that I would have asked myself and also made some observations that hadn’t even occurred to Ron. On the downside, you get questions like "Who’s Ellen?" and "Are those all Cylons?"” from people seeing the show for the very first time. I don’t need recaps of the Tigh/Ellen relationship or the Cylon history thus far.

As usual, no spoilers. Honestly I think he may have only said one tiny thing that may or may not be construed as a spoiler. And I did opt to recap a couple statements that vaguely discuss future developments because they directly tie to situations in ‘Torn’ that left some of us confused and I think people will be relieved to know that the plot points will be addressed.

The high point/low point? Ron all but admits he doesn’t know what the hell to do with Lee. :/



‘Torn’ was a troubled episode in post production. Certain people even said they hated it. There were issues with narrative and places where they had to go back and put some band aids on the problems.

This was seen as a ‘bridge episode’ to set up the next ep.

Baltar and Six on the beach were supposed to come later in the show. Originally, the beginning was much more linear with the ep opening on Galactica and the flight training. When the placement of the scene changed, the dialogue was altered and, apparently, James’ mouth had to be blurred out at one point because the re-looped dialogue did not sync with the footage. The shot of Baltar waking up in bed was also added, taken from footage for ‘Collaborators’.

James had the idea for an earlier ep to use classical piano with the Cylon story line. Love him/hate him for it. ;)

The scene involving Kara damaging her vipor and the reason for her getting chewed out was radically changed in post-production. As filmed, during training exercise the coupling on Kara’s ship blows on its own and fuel begins spewing from her wing. Lee tells her go back to Galactica and she refuses. She pushes on and she eventually tags Kat with the laser, but then her vipor runs out of gas and she has to coast home. This was deemed “boring” and you got the feeling of, “So, she ran out of gas?”. Yet, Lee is yelling at her for this which Ron didn’t feel made much sense. So they altered the story in visual effects and now her actions seem more dangerous.

I very bright young student asked, “Is Lee’s weight loss believable?” The answer was, no, his rapid weight loss is not believable. Now here is where we can all get frustrated!

The Lee and Helo scene was a pick up shot to help explain Lee’s weight loss. (This makes sense given a comment Jamie made some months ago in a post-Emmy party interview in which he stated that his weight loss would go unexplained on screen.) Unfortunately, my hope that there was an intent to explore the friendship between Lee and Helo has been dashed - somewhat. They could have shown Lee training alone and so maybe once they opted to go the way they did they will choose to develop the friendship further. Maybe? Thank God for fanfic. But I digress…

Ron said after he came up with idea to make Lee fat (interesting since both Michael Rymer and Jamie have said it was Michael’s idea) he didn’t know what to do with it. Nice. He was juggling lots of things and psychological underpinnings. Lee has an elaborate back story (supposedly) that involves whatever went down with Starbuck and then settling down and getting married and he got fat and lazy – this was essentially his storyline. Sigh. Once they wrote themselves into a corner (my words) they needed ways for him to lose the weight. At one point he joined the marines, stopped being a fighter pilot, and became more a pure warrior and that would be the method to get him back into shape. (Lee not fly anymore? Bad idea.) Storylines kept not working or were cut for time. Finally someone asked what they were doing about Fat Apollo. So it became, OK, he’s not Fat Apollo anymore. Sigh.

The language for the scrolls was the creation of the prop guys so don’t analyze it too much.

I didn’t notice this, but the basestar has no doors. There is no sense of privacy on the ship. They don’t have concerns about that and live more communally. For instance, they don’t care if you see them naked. There was a conversation in a corridor between Baltar and Six that addressed some of this that was cut.

It was during the discussion of Cylon projections that the beach sequence appeared in it’s entirely. Only the first half of the scene was cut and moved to the teaser with the new dialog looped in.

The Baltar in Six’s head has not been forgotten. They want to address why they (Baltar and Six) see imaginary people - are the imaginary characters linked in some way or are they completely separate?

They are keeping the Cylon plan a bit opaque. Originally, the Cylon’s goal was to simply annihilate mankind, but now they have hijacked our goal of finding earth. They see earth as a way for their own redemption and a second home. We should keep in mind that they are a very young race and the underpinnings of their society have changed. They are evolving, growing, shifting, changing, and adapting and we are beginning to see differences of opinion manifest because of it.

Though they don’t have to, the Cylons communicate using speech, they wear clothes, they ape the human form in many ways because they believe that’s the way God wanted it. But they are also “smarter than us” and Ron didn’t just want to see them pushing buttons and watching screens on the basestar, hence the streaming water as a way of controlling and interacting with their environment.

The Hybrid was a creation of a production designer. The writers were excited by the drawing/idea and began writing for the character. She is seen as being so complex her conscious mind has gone mad. Some Cylons feel everything she says is meaningful and she is a direct line to God - others think she speaks gibberish and she’s crazy and it’s just the way the machine operates. Ron admitted there were elements of ‘Minority Report’ discussed in her development. And the first time they filmed her it didn’t work. She was sitting up more, not so pale, and moved around a lot while acting in the moment. He was very unhappy with the footage and reshot her scenes.

Ron thinks the explanation for the virus doesn’t come through clearly and what’s going on is very confusing. He even admits the back story for it is confusing.

Also confusing is the reason for Baltar killing Raven Haired Six. He doesn’t think it comes across clearly as to why he did it. It seems that he kills her just because he’s worried she is going to tell everyone he’s responsible for the virus. But what the show really wanted to come across was that he finally killed someone with his bare hands.

The Hybrid is seeing a reality that none of the others are. She’s prophet-like and there was a mention that the writers looked at her as the Cassandra figure on the show. Looks like we really should be freshening up on our Greek mythology!

Ron’s favorite scene was Adama kicking the chair out from under Kara. EJO enjoyed doing it too because he likes it when Adama gets to kick ass.

We don’t get to see enough of the impact of what Kara and Tigh were doing. We’re told they are causing problems, poisoning Galactica, but we aren’t seeing that it’s a wider problem. Ron feels like a scene is missing. (At that point Terry Moore, who apparently is glued to his side, jumped in and disagreed with him.)

Sharon/Athena is not accepted by everybody. The old man made a decision in regards to her and they have to live with it. And she did help to save their lives. But they will play throughout the season that that is not a uniform opinion . Some don’t trust her. Ron felt (and I sort of have to agree) that they had to get her out of the cell so they opted to put her in the uniform and see what problems it causes.
  • Current Mood: hungry hungry
The high point/low point? Ron all but admits he doesn’t know what the hell to do with Lee. :/</>

*headdesk.*

There are MANY things you can do/could have done with Lee, Ron! Confront Kara for demorilizing his pilots? Have a little aside where Helo tells Lee not to go anywhere NEAR the rec room because Starbuck knows all of Lee's buttons, is very good at pushing them and the last thing morale needs is an all-out fight between Starbuck and the CAG? Have Lee stick up for Helo when Tigh when he calls Helo "Toaster-lover," even if Lee didn't trust Athena completely? Then have him throw a little aside at his Father: "Sir, we have a problem. My former best friend and your best friend are demoralizing the fleet. Can you conjure up your awesomeness and scare them into playing nice? 'Cause we're screwed if you don't." Maybe show Lee's guilt, because he was against going back for them all, and now he sees the hell they went through? As much as I like pretty! Lee, I could have done without the weighing scene, especially as you admit it's not logical. Really.

*really hopes the season picks up from here. I love what they're doing with Sharon and everyone else, but the lack of a story-line for Lee is driving me BATSHIT.*
Lee does have much more of a storyline this week, but I shall say no more!

A Lee/Kara scene would have been a bad idea in this ep. We didn't need another level of hostility and division amongst the pilots. But I do like your suggestions for Lee and Helo scenes, especially Helo trying to keep Lee away from Kara. More Lee/Helo action can never be a bad thing. ;)
We don’t get to see enough of the impact of what Kara and Tigh were doing.

Thank you!

We’re told they are causing problems, poisoning Galactica, but we aren’t seeing that it’s a wider problem.

Showing is more effective than telling. We see Starbuck being pretty typical Starbuck, and Tigh being cranky (which is typical Tigh). The scene with Adama needed to occur 2 or 3 episodes later when we all believed they were being a problem. My reaction to 'inciting disobedience' was "Where?" "With who?"
I remember reading spoilers that implied Kara and Tigh were openly speaking out against Adama and stirring up trouble to the point of mutiny which a) confused me and b) worried me. But after seeing the ep I didn't understand what the big deal was. It was kind of like Kara just running out of gas. That's it? Ron did make mention wanting to show how their sentiments were spreading and something about a scene with the crew on the deck, but Terry, I think, cut him off and I wasn't sure if they had actually filmed a scene or that he wished they had.
The high point/low point? Ron all but admits he doesn’t know what the hell to do with Lee. :/
*cries*
You're very strong to do these podcasts. Very, very strong.
Ron all but admits he doesn’t know what the hell to do with Lee.

Acceptance is the first step to recovery, right? :) Thanks for the write-up. I have it downloaded but not sure if/when I'll bother with it.
Acceptance is the first step to recovery, right?

We can hope. Actually, my hope is that now the brilliant weight gain story is behind us and Lee has made Helo promise to never let it happen again ;), Lee can rejoin the main story arc. Hey, they have a planet to find!

They are keeping the Cylon plan a bit opaque.

Now that's an understatement. Oh, Ron, you wacky guy.

He even admits the back story for it is confusing.

The good news is that the whole thing will be resolved in the next episode probably and never referred to again. I'm looking on the bright side.

All this post-production finagling makes me think that reading spoilers based on scripts is just a waste of my energy. They can make any footage into anything they want.
I know in past seasons they've tweaked episodes - adding a scene, moving a scene, or cutting scenes until relationships don't make sense ;) - but this season there seems to be a lot of that. The first five eps took place over a relatively short period of time. And flashbacks we haven't even seen yet were filmed while they were filming the first few eps. It's as if they filmed all these scenes for one big story and then decided how to assemble them all. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's better than making an ep, let's say 'Black Market', discovering it's not good and having nothing to work with to make it better.

I've always tried to take spoilers with a grain of salt. 'Buffy' showed me that what's written on a page can come off very different on screen. And unlike Joss Whedon, Ron allows for a lot of leeway from script to screen. Actors are permited to make suggestions and ad lib on set and writers and directors have a say in filming, editing, and story direction. I know the spoilers I read for 'Torn' implied that Tigh and Kara were practically insighting riots and mutiny and what we saw was no where close to that.

Oh, for CRYING OUT LOUD, Ron. ::tears hair out::

::hugs Lee::

The thing is, the Lee/Helo friendship kind of makes SENSE. Remember way back in the mini, Helo waving hello in the ready room like he recognizes him? And then in "Home," yes, Helo puts a gun to his head and Lee snarks at him, but it's not the interaction of flat-out strangers. Lee coming to the brig to see Helo and Tyrol in "Resurrection Ship"...

Why do I even bother? ::sighs, thinks about fanfic::

Thanks for writing it up! If I actually listened to these, my stress levels would be EVEN HIGHER and my head would probably actually explode.
IT DOES! And Lee and Helo could be doing so many other things than worrying about Lee's weight. Like: talking about what Kara and Tigh are doing in the pilot's rec room and worrying about what to do about it. Or very awkward scenes in which Lee sticks up for Athena for Helo's sake, but isn't sure whether he's ready to trust her, or not.
Thank you so much for listening to these so I we don't have to. [brings chocolate]
You're welcome. :) The day may come where I may need some wine with that chocolate. ;)
Ron said after he came up with idea to make Lee fat (interesting since both Michael Rymer and Jamie have said it was Michael’s idea) he didn’t know what to do with it

So, in other words, it's like the death wish and the pregnant girlfriend and every other Lee character development in the last year. He really needs to think these things through better.
Heh. Good point. Accept I could see the death wish after he finds out the two people he trusted most were plotting to murder someone for no reason that he was made aware of. But then that really wasn't the reason he gave up sooo...
The high point/low point? Ron all but admits he doesn’t know what the hell to do with Lee.

Now see, that and a couple of his other answers make me glad I'm no longer watching the show as they annoy the hell out of me and confirm some of my fears (and some of the things that turned me off the show). Everyone tells me how wonderful a write Ron is, and I've no reason to disagree with them based on his previous stuff, but to have it confirmed that he has no idea what to do with one of the major bloody characters on this show makes me so damn mad!!!!!!! Grrrrrrr *wants to hit Ron with something heavy*