Asta 2

'Hero' Podcast

Believe it or not, ‘Hero’ could have been worse. Really! Read for yourself. (All comments in parentheses are mine. :-)

The concept was pitched in the second season, Ron thinks by David Weddle (sp?). Adama was holding onto a secret - that he had participated in a black ops mission before the Cylon attack and held himself responsible. Ron liked the idea of black ops missions prior to the attack and he thought it very plausible that the colonial fleet had been doing something in the forty years between wars.

Laura having Baltar’s picture hung above the toilet was a bit of an in-joke. Ron wants the picture someday and David put his coveted picture above the toilet. ;)

They never wanted to say Adama was directly responsible for the attacks, just that he felt responsible. Clearly the Cylons had been working on it for a long time what with sleeper cells (Sharon?), Baltar having been set up for years, etc.

The Cylon raider being chased by Kat and Kara and docking on Galactica was a much longer sequence. There were longer protocols to safeguard the ship (I thought they allowed the ship to land too easily), but the chase was confusing as to where they were and, once more, they were fighting time so it got edited down.

This is the first ep this season that Ron didn’t take a pass at with his typewriter. He was burnt out from writing the first two eps and rewriting next four. David carried the ep. (In other words, blame him!)

OK, here is where a lot of changes were made (thankfully)….

There were various versions of Laura’s involvement in the story. In early drafts she smells a rat, realizes something is wrong, and that Adama is hiding something from her. So she enlists Lee to do some digging and see what Adama is trying to hide. (This explains David Eick’s answer to a TV Guide Q&A some months back explaining we would see more Lee/Laura and her needing to turn to Lee for help when she senses Adama is not being truthful with her. As much as I was excited by that idea at the time, hearing what would have been involved, I’m glad it was scraped.)

Actual audio tapes of the black ops mission were in Galactica's archives including exchanges between Adama and Bulldog on the Valkyrie. There were problems with this. Ron (and I concur) found it difficult to believe Adama had kept tapes *and* transferred them to Galactica so they could be found. Lee was to find the tapes, play them, and then confront Adama with the truth. Adama becomes very angry and, in one draft, he hauls off and hits him for the first time.

Side note: Ok, most of you know my issues with Adama’s “fat ass” comment to Lee in ‘Precipice/Occupation’. It filled me with rage. It was a cheap shot and, imho, born of Lee daring to question Adama’s judgment. To me, we are seeing that play out again, but Adama looks even worse because he’s confronted with hard facts and unwilling to face that he did he hauls off and hits his son? Which is not only wrong on that level, but Lee is a junior officer. Ron believes this would have been an “amazing moment”, but they didn’t earn it legitimately. No Ron, it would have been the moment I lost all respect for Adama.

Adama was going to eventually offer to resign and turn over command to Lee. Only when they find out Bulldog was allowed to escape, Adama pulls back and maintains command.

All of this changed for a couple reasons. There was not time for a Lee investigative story (hello Black Market) and it was not as interesting as the personal story. And Adama resigning his command Ron thought it was bullshit. He doesn’t believe he’d just step down.

The dialogue by Lucy Lawless in the flashback with Bulldog was totally improvised by her. The scene, as written, was to be largely silent.

Ron thought the threesome was worth doing and believes it’s just fine to jump ahead in the narrative and the relationship. (Don’t get me started on that one.)

As Lee’s investigation went away, the Tigh/Adama story grew. This ep was to show a rehabilitated Tigh. He turned a corner in saving Adama from Bulldog and he has earned his place back in CIC. (Wow, it’s that easy? Oh, right, Ron likes to breeze over the big moments and move on to the next crisis). Tigh is turning back into the man we know and love.

Ron misses Ellen/Kate – she was the spark of life on the show because she was so unlike any of the other characters. She also showed us the other side of Tigh.

Apparently, some sequences were moved around. I wasn’t watching the ep, was tired, and growing rather bored by this point so I’m not sure what he was talking about.

On the back-story – why the Valkyrie? If it had been Galactica on the mission, then it would undercut idea that it was a museum ship on its way out and not a ship involved in black ops missions. And everyone on board Galactic would have known who this guy was and would have had an investment in his story. No longer would it be a closely guarded secret of Adama’s. (OK, fair enough, but couldn’t you have made the mission five or seven years earlier???) It also presents a reason Adama gets kicked to the curb and given command of an old bucket. There has been little reasoning for events previously established such as why Adama was on his way out. (Um, age? Downsizing?) We also see why he didn’t he rise above commander.

They pushed believability with the armistice line. With the vastness of space, it’s hard to buy that a couple clicks and he’s caught or that he could see anything just after he gets past the ‘line’.

They were going to do more with the Taurans (sp?) story, but it became too complicated.

A line of Lee’s was cut in which he states that maybe they (the Admiralty) wanted to provoke an attack and start a war. Ron felt this was too much, too big a conspiracy. They would not deliberately set up a war. Though Laura mentions the same thing later (Lee and Laura of the same mind! Sorry, moving on….), but Ron wishes he had forced David to cut that mention too.

D’Anna’s ‘suicides’ are the result of her being desperate to experience the downloading process. She glimpses something then.

Kara confronted Novacek herself, but I’m unclear if this was cut before filming or there is a deleted scene somewhere.

There was a scene between Kara and Tigh in ‘Unfinished Business’ explaining their new found closeness, but it was cut for time apparently. (You may begin grousing before the ep airs tonight.)

Again, I was a little confused do to sleepiness, but there was at least one continuity error in the ep they caught. They had to reloop “45 years of courageous service” because there were mentions of his 40 years of service? The first Cylon war forty years ago?

The Novacek wrap up scene at the end was cut and reinserted several times. They needed to let us know what was happening with him. It’s unlikely he’d put back in a cockpit right away, so he was sent off so you wouldn’t expect to see him in the ready room next week. He was sent to the same ship they sent Boxey. ;)

We see Tigh on the road back. He has his uniform jacket on and the road to recovery officially starts. In early drafts of the script, Adama gave his medal to Tigh and we see everyone cheering him. (Thank God for editing.)
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Sooo...they went from the idea of a BIGGER rift between Adama and Lee to the scene where basically their closeness was reaffirmed. Um. Okay. I like the way it ended up, but if that's the writers' mental place for them, I think we're going to get relationship-whiplash in forthcoming eps. ::sigh:: Continuity is for QUITTERS.
Yeah, it seems like a big ol' 180. The Lee/Adama scene was one of the saving graces of the ep for me and OMG THE RAGE there would have been had Adama hit Lee, so I'm very happy that we got what we got. But it really casts doubt that they have a plan for the characters, doesn't it?
I take it you didn't like Hero? ;-) (Apologies, I logged onto LJ only sporadically while I was away, and in any case only watched the ep... last Monday, I think.)

I am disappointed to hear that that was the mythical "Laura turning to Lee for help" thing. :-(
I am disappointed to hear that that was the mythical "Laura turning to Lee for help" thing. :-(

Me too, though I had my suspicions while watching. It was obvious there was some trust issues happening and so it dawned on me that this could be the big Lee/Laura interaction! But, given the rest of the intended storyline, I think I'll give them this cut.

I didn't hate 'Hero' it's just that I had read interviews with a lot of build up and then when I saw it for myself I was let down. There was some wasted opportunities and plot holes you could fly a battlestar through. ;p
I'm also disappointed this was what that comment about Lee/Laura scenes was about. While I agree the storyline wasn't great, they could have still had a Lee/Larua scene dammit! I'm getting really tired of them not interacting. It doesn't make sense.

I also agree with Ron Moore that Adama hitting Lee would have been an amazing moment, but that it a) might also have been the moment that I lost all respect for him too, and b) no, in the described scenario, they wouldn't have earned it.

Also, forty years is too short (given the two years they've been on the run) but I was always under the impression that Adama joined at the very end of the cylon wars, though I'm not sure where I got that from entirely...

The points about why Adama had to be in command of a different battlestar are good, and it's also a good way to explain Adama's retirement situation, but this could have all be done "three years before the attacks" and there wouldn't have been anything like the continuity errors.

Regarding the skipping forward in the relationships I have mixed feelings. I don't think it's necessarily sloppy storytelling and there's a genuine arguement that it fits the dreamlike timeless state of the basestar. But I desperately want to see more of this. It's like only ever getting to watch the trailer for a show. Frustrating...

Finally, Tigh on the road to recovery? YOU ASS! (RDM, not you) No, no, no, no, no, I so don't need to see Tigh boring again and going "What the hell?" every time something appears on DRADIS without even Ellen to make him more interesting. Nothing in that episode made me think he had healed. That "I see it," thing with the cigarette was creepy. He's still mourning over his murdered wife's clothes. While he saves Adama he still tells Bulldog the story with what I felt was disdain for Adama. The things he's done and the way he's fractured, you don't get to earn your place in the CIC (was he saying he'd demote Helo?) by beating up a murderous PTSD-suffering ex-POW even if said beating up needs to be done to prevent said murderousness.

I wish they would let us watch Tigh totally implode. Now there's a character arc you nearly never see on TV. Usually it's all about how someone goes "dark" for a few episodes but then "redeems" themselves. And often it works well. But Tigh needs more. Um. Yeah.

See how long the babbling is? GRR! DESTROY TIGH!
Since I'm still at work, I don't have time to respond to all your points (more later ;), but I wanted to touch on this:

I also agree with Ron Moore that Adama hitting Lee would have been an amazing moment, but that it a) might also have been the moment that I lost all respect for him too, and b) no, in the described scenario, they wouldn't have earned it.

It would have been an amazing moment in terms of shock value. I know I would have been stunned. But it occured to me yet another problem I have with the idea. The show is relying too heavily, imho, with using violence as a source of dealing with or solving problems. In 'Torn' we have Adama knocking Kara on her ass to knock her to her senses. In the very soon to be airing 'Unfinished Business' they turn to boxing to apparently resolve personal conflicts and make things right. And in 'Hero' we could have had Adama smacking Lee presumably making Adama aware that there is something wrong and leading him to resign. Yeah, sure, people make bad choices and sometimes turn to violence as a way of communicating their feelings, but people also talk and I really wish we'd have these people once in awhile use words instead of their fists.

Also, we could have had a scene in which Laura does ask Lee if he knows what is wrong with Adama and why he is acting the way he is. When he says no, we could have then had the scene in which Adama asks to speak to him. We could then presume Lee encourages Adama to speak with Laura. But, no, let's inexplicably keep them apart!
Clearly you are the hero for braving these podcasts and recapping them for the rest of us!

I plan to tune in for the podcasts with the actors, but I've sworn off podcasts since S2. RDM's near-disasters interfere with my enjoyment of the show. Seriously, one day I think we're going to discover he has an Ugly Betty-type assistant who's been looking out for him and will become the next wunderkind producer.
Well, I thought Terry Moore may have more sense than her husband, but she spends an awful lot of time on the Sci-Fi board so I'm not sure.
Wow, the Lee/Laura thing is really disappointing. I was hoping for something more than just that. That's a shame. A real shame. And I really don't want Tigh back in the CIC yet. I wish they had dragged out his redemption a lot longer; hell, I still wish they would have ended up making him the season 3 enemy. I had it all planned out in my head. *g* That would have been such a cool arc. But NO.

Not that I'm bitter.
The thing about Tigh actually bothers me more (yeah, I'm shocked too ;). He is one of the best written characters this season and is on an amazing, if painful journey, and, yeah, I would have liked to have seen him really hit bottom because as bad as things are he didn't seem to be there yet. I just don't get how saving Adama's life = redemption. When did the show start settling for short cuts? Heck, let's just marry Lee and Kara and Adama and Roslin off now! They can all live happily on earth next season!

I still wish they would have ended up making him the season 3 enemy. I had it all planned out in my head. *g* That would have been such a cool arc.

You know, you could do that yourself. ;-)
The thing is, I could completely buy "Heroes" as the end of Tigh's redemption arc, I just wanted more episodes where he was at bottom. It seems an awfully quick turnaround from the man most everyone thought was going to shoot himself right in front of Adama! I'm hoping the show will find it's emotional bearings, now that it seems to have a general plot more under control. Although I reserve the right to take that back based on how much I like tonight's episode. Heh.

you could do that yourself

I have had that thought, believe me.
To me, we are seeing that play out again, but Adama looks even worse because he’s confronted with hard facts and unwilling to face that he did he hauls off and hits his son?

I would have found that really out of character. When he found out that Kara passed Zak, you could tell he was expressing a physical reaction, but the weight of his anger came from that repression, and I think that's a lot more powerful. I don't see Adama actually hauling off and hitting Lee, especially under those circumstances, and agree it would have made him look really bad.

I love how they're always unintentionally stumbling into what ends up being the emotional core of the episode--in this case, Tigh's epiphany that he had become as much a tool of the Cylons as Bulldog by giving in to his bitterness. Yeah, they have a plan all right.
Adama seethes anger more than demontsrates it. Look at how terrified Lee and Kara were at what Adama might do on Kobol. And one of the few times we have seen him lash out was against Sharon on Kobol and he kind of had a really good reason there.

Yeah, they have a plan all right.

Apparently Ron is a Cylon. ;p

it’s just fine to jump ahead in the narrative and the relationship

I love this, in a perverse sort of way. Ron Moore doesn't want to tell a story; he wants to have told a really cool story.

Ron misses Ellen/Kate

Me too. Her energy is lacking in the show.
Ron Moore doesn't want to tell a story; he wants to have told a really cool story.

Hee! Great way to put it. :) It would exlplain his enthusiasm when he introduces a neat, new development, but then seems to forget about it when the next inspired idea hits him.