Asta 2

Podcast for 'Eye of Jupiter'

You people owe me! :p


The episode was called ‘Eye of Zeus’ for a very long time. They changed name because ‘Eye of Zeus’ seemed too mystical and over the top and ‘Eye of Jupiter' seemed less hokey. (Er, Okay) It also allowed them to broaden the pantheon of gods and references in the BSG universe. He believes they have used either Roman names before.

The algae planet – early versions close to where they ended up, but the process of discovering the temple was different. Cally was going to find a human bone fragment which would lead them to use radar ground imaging. They discover an underground city buried over time and begin to start looking in more earnest. The Cylons then show up and Adama bluffs them while they try to find the Eye. Tyrol and Cally end up falling through the roof into the structure. Again, this was cut for expense in an already expensive episode, but they also had already done the gag with finding a human skull so it seemed repetitive. Instead they have Tyrol have a ‘Close Encounters’ moment. (Having not seen the film, I’m not sure what that means.)

Ron’s analysis of Lee/Kara basically jives with ours. Lee is the one willing to divorce and make a clean break as he was in UB. Kara falling back to her religious beliefs, declaring she made a vow she won’t break. Ron points out human beings rationalize the strangest things, that it’s part of human behavior. And while Kara can’t divorce, can’t break that covenant, she’ll cheat while married, but, for Lee, the thought of lying and cheating is awful to him.

For the algae planet to be somewhat believable they felt they couldn’t go to the forests – this was as close to barren as they could get. He also explains they don’t go around harvesting the bushes, etc because, with their processing equipment, the algae provides a longer term solution to their food problems.

The Temple was created in the same sugar factory that they shot the end of miniseries at. (The Adama/Leoben fight.)

Ron didn’t see Baltar arriving back on Galactica as big a deal as James and Michael Rymer did (This was the first ‘OMG, really?’ moment for me in the podcast) and he fought to excise some of the scene and make it simpler. Not filmed, but discussed, was the idea of Gaeta being part of the team bringing Baltar aboard Galactica. As they walked and talked Baltar said how much he missed the ship and never thought he would. Given Gaeta’s reaction to him, he realizes he can never come back. Some of this was incorporated in the middle of the Baltar/Adama/Laura scene. After Laura exists and Cavil makes the offer to give them Baltar, Adama and Tigh leave and go to Adama’s quarters to discuss the offer with Laura. There is then a Baltar and Gaeta interlude in which Baltar bums a cigarette and quietly mentions they should look at a star in the system. Adama and Tigh come back in and reject the offer. Ultimately, they decided that there was not a lot for Adama to go off and talk about since they were never going to get what they wanted from the Cylons. And Gaeta could discover the information on his own.

Ron also discussed how Baltar still doesn’t see himself as villain. He still wants to be thought of as the good guy and that’s why he tries to clue them in, help them.

Boomer struggles bonding with Hera were cut in rewrites. There was also a scene written in which Boomer presses a chip into Sharon’s hand which would allow her to see into the basestar (recall their once mentioned ability to place themselves in environments) and see the problems they were having with Hera. The audience already knew it was true Hera was alive and Sharon really doesn’t need to be convinced.

It was decided that the least melodramatic version of having Sharon learn about Hera was from Boomer.

There was more of Anders as de facto leader of the civilians, both in the script and filmed. There was to be heavy resistance from the civilians taking Lee as commander once it became a military operation and his methods weren’t working so well. In the teaser they showed that the military and civilians were not getting along. Not only was all this cut for time, but it wasn’t about that – it was about the quartet, as they call them, and their relationship.

Ron is an ex Catholic. Color me shocked.

There was more of the hybrid/Baltar/D’Anna storyline but I kind of tuned that part out. ;)

Before Anders speech there was another speech (filmed) with Lee addressing all of them, including military personal you don't see in the final cut. You saw Lee give things in a very military way and Anders in a more human way and thus him winning the civilians over. This didn’t ring true to Ron. When Lee is in front of troops, he comes to life and is a charismatic leader and can communicate well to those beneath him.

Anders does know what is going on, he’s no fool. (My second ‘OMG, really?’ moment) When Anders says, “you think you’re the first?”, it was not said simply to get at Lee. Ron explains that when you are with Kara you know what you are getting. Kara goes out and tomcats around. You either accept it or get out of it. Anders accepts it and moves on because he wants to be with her and is not willing to break up his marriage over it. Ron doesn’t think it makes him look weak - people make arrangements for their marriages, make compromises they never think they would. Um, Ok, but here’s the thing, Lee would never accept this with Kara. So, if L/K are meant to be they need to establish Kara loves Lee so much she is willing to change this part of her life for him or they will never be together.

Ron went on about how Caprica Six is such an interesting, sympathetic character and reminded us that this is a character that snapped a baby’s neck and participated in the genocide of a race and yet you now sympathize with her. He gave a lot of credit for this to Tricia and went on to say how great she is with being able to make so many versions of Six distinct individuals that don’t often get confused. (So why not give her a significant part to play this season?)

Originally Kara was on the ground and her outpost was overrun rather than having her raptor go down.

In a draft of the script, Sharon confronted Laura to the point of almost attacking her physically. It was deemed to over the top.

(This was more of a ‘WTF? Really?’ moment) The Laura/Adama scene – once Laura admits it’s all true, Adama gets up and…goes to the bathroom to begin shaving. Seriously. They filmed this. She follows him and, standing in the doorway, begins to explain what she did. He gives her nothing in response. He asks for a towel, she hands it to him. He finally says. ‘You should have told me’ and then leaves. In the version we saw he just leaves – it’s more dramatic. And we didn’t need to hear her rationalization.

Originally, they wrote a true standoff between Lee and Anders. Lee wouldn’t let him go after Kara and he pulls a gun on him. One of Anders men then pulls a gun on Lee and everyone stars pulling guns on each other. They had a Mexican standoff. Rymer felt it felt phony (Thank you!) and Lee really does have the upper hand here.

Ron’s closing remark has to do with the move to Sunday in January and he comments, “Bring more of your friends.” Oh, yeah, I feel confidant about a fourth season.
  • Current Mood: sleepy sleepy
Ohhhhhhhh nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*pats you* OMG, that podcast was HORRID. *shudders for you*
Yes, we owe you.

Personally, I'm pissy they cut the Gaius/Gaeta interaction, and very wtf?! about their attitude regarding Anders.

This didn’t ring true to Ron. When Lee is in front of troops, he comes to life and is a charismatic leader and can communicate well to those beneath him.
*thankful for small mercies* Because I would have REALLY HATED a scene based on Anders being better with people than Lee.

When Anders says, “you think you’re the first?”, it was not said simply to get at Lee.
*stabs Ron* GRRRRRRR. Ok, I was wrong on that point. Seems I was clinging to false hope there... grrrrr.

Um, Ok, but here’s the thing, Lee would never accept this with Kara. So, if L/K are meant to be they need to establish Kara loves Lee so much she is willing to change this part of her life for him or they will never be together.
Yup. You're right. He never would. They're doomed to torment, as am I.

once Laura admits it’s all true, Adama gets up and…goes to the bathroom to begin shaving. Seriously. They filmed this.
*rotfl* Heeee. Humour is the best response I can give to this.

Lee really does have the upper hand here.
Yeah. Because he's RIGHT. Arrrrghhhh!!!

Sorry. I'm pissy and emo. I will leave now...
I would have liked to have seen some Gaius/Gaeta interaction (no necessarily in THAT way ;), but with the ep running long I can see why it went and Adama and Tigh walking off and leaving the Cylons alone there to pot would have made no sense to me.

Because I would have REALLY HATED a scene based on Anders being better with people than Lee.

Well, I think you know my feelings on that scenerio. ;) One of the things I loved about the ep was seeing Lee being in charge and being so very good at it. Actually, this is the best I've ever seen Lee react in a pressure situation and the first time he really didn't allow personal feelings to effect his judgment at all. I would have been so pissed if that would have been undercut by Anders being made to look like some sort of born leader at Lee's expense.

Ok, I was wrong on that point. Seems I was clinging to false hope there... grrrrr.

Apparently 99% of fandom was wrong on that point. I was just stunned when I heard him say 'Oh, yeah, she tomkats around' and it was like no big deal, that's Kara. Accept, no, I don't think it is. I think once she commits to someone, even if it's the wrong someone, she really tries to make it work. Lee is an exception because she's loved him for a long time and, as much as she's trying to act like it's a fling and no nig deal, it is. Aldso, in a strange Kara rationalize way, she's trying to make it work with both men.

Here's the thing. Kara moved did everything she could to return to Caprica and rescue Anders. She made a promise to him, shall we say an oath, that she could not face breaking. But why did she make that promise? Let's say she didn't love him at the time, but she obviously cared a great deal. Once she develops an attachment to someone she wants their approval, wants to make them proud of her, to love her even if she believes she's a screw-up and unloveable. So I have a very, very hard time believing that Kara would so casually undermine her relationship with Anders and, frankly, cause him pain for a just a little bit of fun.

Ya know what, we have seen none of this behavior on screen so I'm choosing to believe it's not true. I'd love to get Michael Rymer's take on it. He seemed to have a clue while directing the ep.

I've been reading your recap of RDM's podcast and never said thanks. So thanks.

"Kara goes out and tomcats around. You either accept it or get out of it. Anders accepts it and moves on because he wants to be with her and is not willing to break up his marriage over it. Ron doesn’t think it makes him look weak - people make arrangements for their marriages, make compromises they never think they would."

Now, I'm wondering why they are actually bothering with the quartet...it doesn't make sense with the "new" characters personalities anyway.


You're welcome. Why should we all have to suffer? ;-)

Yeah, Ron is being rather contradictory. Anders is OK with Kara cheating as long as it's not with Lee Adama. She can have meaningless sex, but can have no feelings towards another man. Which I get on some level, but it still puts Anders in a bad light as far as I'm concerned. He has a selective blind eye. And is Kara suppose to live by his rules?
They changed name because ‘Eye of Zeus’ seemed too mystical and over the top and ‘Eye of Jupiter' seemed less hokey. It also allowed them to broaden the pantheon of gods and references in the BSG universe.

Um...I believe what they meant is "when we were writing it, we couldn't remember if we were based on Greek or Roman mythology, so we just pulled shit out of our ass." Because, given the closed captioning on "The Passage", it was called "Eye of Zeus" up to the point it went for captioning, because that's what they said in the captioning.

Also, I've not seen a single person - Kara/Lee shipper or otherwise - really think Anders meant anything other than to get to Lee by the "you think you're the first" comment. I mean, Kara's always been portrayed as faithful to the people she loves (Zak, for example), so I'm a little confused here and it seems very out of character (and I'm not even the biggest Kara fan!) Though it seems to me that Anders is really an ass and probably rationalized a whole lot of stuff about Kara's time with Leoben. Maybe he thought she asked for that.

You are the bravest of us all, I think, for listening to these things. I think if I did, I'd have no choice but to make the trip to Vancouver and knock some sense into Ron.
His rational for the Zeus/Jupiter thing this was fishy. I think I would have been fine with it had they established much earlier and in a prominent way that there are elements of both Greek and Roman mythology in their religion. And, um, shouldn't have Zarek been refering to Adama as Jupiter in 'Bastille Day' and 'The Farm' rather then Zeus???

Though it seems to me that Anders is really an ass and probably rationalized a whole lot of stuff about Kara's time with Leoben.

That is a real possability. I also think Kara can be flirty, especially when she's drinking, so perhaps he saw that side of her on New Caprica, walked off, and just assumed stuff happened that didn't. Which, again, would show a huge lack of communication in their marriage.

I don't know how Ron can say Anders has this understanding and acceptance of Kara when every action and statement on Anders part shows that he really doesn't know her at all. And by my calculations they didn't spend all that much time alone together prior to getting married. I have to say though, Lee's blow up at Anders at the end of the ep, his stating that he's known her and cared about her much longer than he has, I'm having a greater appreciation for.
...I want to HURT that man.

I want to make him CRY.

ARGH.

That is all.

omgwtf where did season one COME from these idiots couldn't possibly have written it...
The Kara 'tomcats' around made me die inside. Really.

I cannot articulate the WTF there. So she cheated on Zak, too? Which completely cheapens that relationship.

I don't buy she was running around on Sam on NC. They looked happy and I believe after the choices she made, she wanted that marriage to work.

I am so aggravated by this. *cries*
Particularly since, in...what, the 18 months we saw from the miniseries to the end of season 2, she slept with exactly TWO men (Baltar and Anders), and tried to hook up with Lee and ruined it because she couldn't stop thinking about Anders. How is that tomcatting? And she ended up marrying one of the two men she slept with. And suddenly, she sleeps with everything that moves?
Gaaaaah! I also listened to the podcast... It made me want to my ears or something. The remarks on Sharon-on-Sharon action grossed me out.

And WTF, 3 guys in three years?! How is that tomcatting around?

Um, Ok, but here’s the thing, Lee would never accept this with Kara. So, if L/K are meant to be they need to establish Kara loves Lee so much she is willing to change this part of her life for him or they will never be together.
Exactly!
The remarks on Sharon-on-Sharon action grossed me out.

I ultimately chose not to mention that because a) yeah,it was gross and disturbing and b) I try to recap stuff that is relevant to what we see on screen (or interstig behind the scenes stuff) and not his questionable humor. But as long as you brought it up, feel free to discuss people! ;-)

And WTF, 3 guys in three years?! How is that tomcatting around?

And, remember, when she was with Baltar she was thinking of Lee!
You are so very brave to listen to these for us. I think I would've hit the Eye of Jupiter thing and stopped listening.

Eye of Jupiter is less over the top than Eye of Zeus? Sure, Ron. Whatever y'all say. *eyeroll*

You know, I am just going to ignore the Kara tomcatting around thing until and unless they show some kind of scene (flashback or otherwise) where Kara actually fraks a whole bunch of guys not a) Zak, b) Sam, c) Lee, or d) Gaius. Otherwise? Sorry, Ron, your words are not canon. Thank goodness. And Lee so would not put up with constantly being cheated on by Kara.

About the only thing I like better in the way they'd originally scripted it is how they found the temple - it makes a bit more sense than the Chief just randomly wandering off and finding it. But I accept the change since it's clear they couldn't actually shoot the other version.
You know, I am just going to ignore the Kara tomcatting around thing until and unless they show some kind of scene (flashback or otherwise)

ITA. Unless I see it, I am not believing it.

About the only thing I like better in the way they'd originally scripted it is how they found the temple - it makes a bit more sense than the Chief just randomly wandering off and finding it. But I accept the change since it's clear they couldn't actually shoot the other version.

It would have made more sense than Tyrol getting a feeling (maybe he has a destiny too? ;), but as Ron was explaining the scene I thought there was no way they could have filmed it giving time and cost constraints. I'm willing to hand wave some of this stuff, but their is no excuse for the characterization WTF's?
Thank you so much for doing this. I enjoy reading some of the information from the podcasts, but RDM's opinion on things? Heh. Good thing the rest of the writers seem to have a clue as to what's really happening and motivations and all that. :D
Hee! I love your icon. Maybe we should get t-shirts printed up? ;)

The only reason I listen to the podcasts (other than to spare you all ;) is because I do enjoy hearing about the creative process, what was cut and why, and wondering for better and worse what might have been. But if it was Ron's vision alone we were getting, be afraid, be very afraid.
Until it is explicitly on screen (and perhaps not even then) I refuse to believe that Kara is an Ellen Tigh. That dynamic worked poignantly and well in that relationship, but not for Kara. It's not that I believe she's incapable of fidelity in marriage, nor that I have a jaded view of her character (I think she's sort of horrible right now), but I do not believe this. Outside of a relationship, yes, casual affairs like Baltar happen. But no. Not what RDM just said. It makes no sense.

Also, shaving?! I mean, this isn't, in my opinion, evidence that RDM is an idiot, because first drafts are full of dumb ideas, and they had the sense to notice this. But the point is, shaving?!

Also...re: fourth season. Shit. I said when I heard they were changing the schedule that it was a bad idea... *bashes head on tree*
Hee. I was just replying to your e-mails. ;-)

Yeah, the shaving thing was just plain weird. And they actually filmed the shaving bit! RDM said that when Adama gets up and leaves the room he actually headed toward the bathroom and Mary/Laura had this whole one-sided conversation with him!

I'm still not sure if moving the show to Sunday is a bad idea. Many shows have flurished on Sundays here. The bad move on Sci-Fi's part was splitting up BSG and the Gates and now they are trying to salvage BSG. I say salvage because, if they wanted to, they could have canceled it already. Heck, that would boost the ratings for the final eps. I'm just worried that Sci-Fi's earlier blunder coupled with RDM's choices as of late haven't blown a chance for another season. I do believe the show has one more year left in it.
If I had any doubts about Ron's cluelessness of human nature they have been erased. I'm a lapsed Catholic myself, and one of the things that got to me is the hypocrisy of taking a vow, then justifying it to yourself when breaking it (and cheating is breaking it, worse than ending a marriage that isn't working). True, it is human nature to justify things to yourself, but there is also something called pride and self respect. I can't see how Anders can come off better than Lee, who will not be a cheating spouse or settle for one. The atheist has a clearer moral code, hah!
Thank you for listening to the podcast :)

My God, I want to smack Ron. WTF about Kara tomcatting around?

I'm going to ignore that. Hee.
I'm going to ignore that.

I think that is the mantra on my Flist right now. ;) Now we just need icons!