Asta 2

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Zap2It review of 'Maelstorm' and hints at what might be to come - it's up to you if you consider that spoilerish.



That crazy Starbuck was given a second chance, and when the wheel turned back and she did sit at her mother's deathbed, she stopped being Starbuck. Her entire personality was the crazy, and when she voluntarily voided that, there was nothing left for her.

Interesting point that when she got to go back to that moment when her mother died and, in her mind, got to change events she stopped being Starbuck. I'm not sure I entirely agree with that. Perhaps because I believe our personalities are formed by numerous events and people we meet. Her difficulty in forming attachments and opening up to people started well before her mothers death, imho. And Zak's death has definitely had an inpact on her romantic relationships, most obviously with Lee. But there have been theories that Starbuck dies and Kara comes back and Andy Greiser's statement would help support that.

First, the original series killed off Apollo, and then resurrected him on the Ship of Lights, which is more than a little the precursor (at least in set design) to the Final Five Cylons. Second, the geekiest among us will remember that in an unaired "Galactica 1980," Dirk Benedict's Starbuck ascended to become part of the Ship of Lights. More pieces in the puzzle: The current incarnation's writers have said they plan to re-imagine the originals' Ship of Lights plotline, and have made noise about Starbuck returning as something more. Plus, Kara has that whole Destiny thing...

OK, I remember the Apollo storyline clearly and I also recall Starbuck dying, but I have no recollection of him ascending and becoming part of the ship of lights. Of course, it's been years since I've seen that episode and it was a re-edited version so it could be true.

And I'm spoiled, but I haven't read any interview with Ron or David in which they state they plan to reimagine the ship of lights plot line or anything about Kara coming back as "something more". Did I miss something? Or is Mr Greiser taking bits of information and extrapolating it into something more?

Still no podcast up. NOT THAT I'M SUSPICIOUS!

Oh, and the extended deleted scene finally appeared on the Sci-FI site.
  • Current Mood: curious curious
Hee! Small world! I think I have to register to leave feedback at Zap2It, but I'll try doing that later.

Without referencing anything since you are behind, Andy made mention of some information I had not heard about before which surprised me since I thought I was completely spoiled. Any chance of finding out where he picked up what he picked up or if perhaps, like the rest of us, he's just coming up with reasoning for certain story lines. I don't know how things work at Zap2It so it's possible he can't share anymore than he did.
And, see, you should never share you know people in the know because I'll be bugging you for stuff now! ;p
Second, the geekiest among us will remember that in an unaired "Galactica 1980," Dirk Benedict's Starbuck ascended to become part of the Ship of Lights. More pieces in the puzzle: The current incarnation's writers have said they plan to re-imagine the originals' Ship of Lights plotline, and have made noise about Starbuck returning as something more.

Oh, god, I remember that plot. Bear in mind I haven't seen it in yonks, so some details may be off, but here's how it played out in my memory:

Starbuck's Viper is damaged on a mission, and he has to try landing on a planet with no hope of the Galactica coming back for him, since the Cylons are still in hot pursuit of the fleet. There was a great underplayed scene between him and Boomer, where Boomer has to peel off and leave him, and then Starbuck dives through the cloud cover and is gone. We see him crashed on the planet, which is desolate, wandering around for awhile until he find the wreck of a Cylon fighter, and repairs a salvagable Cylon so he has someone to talk to. (The episode in new BSG, where Kara is stranded on a planet and has to rewire a Cylon fighter to get out really reminded me of this, actually.)

Starbuck and the rewried Cylon become buds, very Robinson Crusoe-esque cum Enemy Mine. Eventually, the Cylon, whose emotions have somewhat evolved from hanging out with a human all this time, decides that Starbuck is lonely, and goes for a walk one day. When he returns, he has this hot human babe with him.

Starbuck thinks, OMG, is she another person stranded here? I can't remember exactly the what with some of the stuff with the girl - my mind insists that she was mute or something, but I'm not sure - but whatever, she and Starbuck fall in love/get it on at some point and she gets pregnant. Things get hazy here, but what I do know for sure is that their child becomes the weird glowy mystical godlike child being on the Galactica in Galactica 1980 that even Adama consults about policy, because he has weird vision powers or whatever, and incidentally he's played by the kid who was cousin Oliver on the Brady Bunch, the little white-blond moptop kid with glasses. In a white robe. With a priestly air. It was WEIRD.

What I don't recall is what happened to Starbuck himself. Maybe he ascended - I might have blanked that part. But I do remember watching this ep, which felt like bad fanfic even then, when I didn't even know what that was, and not even my terrible Starbuck crush could make me feel better about it. There were some nice moments with him being lost and alone that made my poor heart hurt for the woobie, but that's about it - as sci-fi plots go, it was you-gotta-be-kidding-me-a-mystic-love-child? Bleah!
OK, you recall as much, if not a bit more, of the ep than I do. I had a crush on Starbuck too (I was young and didn't know Dirk was such an ass! ;) and I recall getting majorly pissed off at the end of the ep as Adama tells the mystical offspring that his father was dead. It's possible he was just presumed dead, but I thought Adama stated that they went back to the planet and found his body as well as a baby boy. God that show was horrible and this was considered the best ep. ::shudders::
I remember waaaaaaaaaaay back when season 1 was still in development that RDM said something regarding an interest in remaking "War of the Gods" (the ep with Ship of Lights), but he was also then interested in bringing Sheba into the mix someday with Cain...but when Cain appeared she did so without Sheba. RDM has also made more recent statements where he said he has decided against using the Ship of Lights on his BSG. He could yet change his mind again, but I'm hoping that doesn't happen. If he did, he'd never again be able to declare that his show is really drama and not really typical science fiction.

And BTW - the orginal Starbuck never ascended to the Ship of Lights. I think he's confusing Starbuck with Daniel Jackson. :-7
Oh, and about the so-called hints from RDM or DE that Kara might "come back" as something different...they haven't even yet admitted publicly that Kara was going to die, let alone that she might "come back" later on.
Now that you mention it, I seem to recall an old interview in which Ron mentioned that he wanted to reimagine certain story arcs from the old series and he brought up the 'Pegasus' storyline and 'War of the Gods'. While I think the 'Pegasus' story genuinely interested him I think he was also placating fans of TOS by bringing up old characters and plots.

And I knew Starbuck died (it pissed me off), but I didn't think he ascended.
Interesting point that when she got to go back to that moment when her mother died and, in her mind, got to change events she stopped being Starbuck. I'm not sure I entirely agree with that. Perhaps because I believe our personalities are formed by numerous events and people we meet. Her difficulty in forming attachments and opening up to people started well before her mothers death, imho. And Zak's death has definitely had an inpact on her romantic relationships, most obviously with Lee. But there have been theories that Starbuck dies and Kara comes back and Andy Greiser's statement would help support that.

That's an interesting perspective in the article, but I'm inclined to agree with you. I'd go even further and state that even if her mother did have the largest effect on her personality, most of the damage was already done by the time that scene would have taken place. A chance to have a few moments perceived reconciliation may have helped Kara but it would not have negated the years of abuse that formed some parts of her personality.

To be honest, I think that entire scene was more a fabrication of Kara's imagination. If Kara had really gone back to see her mother on her deathbed, would she have found her pouring over an old scrapbook and finally connecting on some level? Or would she have continued her old pattern, just as Kara would have been by returning? We'll never know. I know that to me, the whole thing smacks of an abused six-year-old's fairytale about her mother "getting better" and showing her love, squashed into the last place Kara could squash it, and the place it would narratively fit best - the five weeks before her death.

I wouldn't be surprised if this whole thing is some kind of call back the Ship of Lights thing - though I'm not familiar with it. Though I also think the whole dying, travelling through the lands of the dead, then returning with secret knowledge thing is an archetype the original probably drew on and I wouldn't be surprised if current BSG were doing so independently of the original. Or rather, the fact that the original followed that pattern makes it even more appealing for modern BSG to follow this same arc?

I wonder what you could possibly say in a podcast for this episode...
I wonder what you could possibly say in a podcast for this episode...

What? Is that a hint I'm falling down in my LJ responsabilities? ;p

A chance to have a few moments perceived reconciliation may have helped Kara but it would not have negated the years of abuse that formed some parts of her personality.

There is too much ingrained in her personality as the result of her mother's abuse for it to be wiped out by a few minutes with a figment of her imagination. And, I agree, this was not Kara's real mom but an image that Kara created of what she most wanted - love and acceptance by her mother.

I'm still having issues with some of this though. That Kara would still desire her mother's love so badly after the horrors she put her through. Seeking Adama's love and approval? Yeah, that makes sense to me because he's a 'safe' substitute. He's someone who garners a lot of respect and who wouldn't deliberately hurt her.

I also don't like that a reconcilliation of sorts was utilized to get Kara past her fear and put her on whatever path she is on. It was too quick, easy, and showed some really bad Dr Phil psychology on Ron's part.
Aah, I meant "you" in a generic sense! Or rather, I was wondering what RDM could possibly say about an episode such as this.

I found it tragic that what Kara wanted was her mother's approval and yes, I did believe it. Okay, partly because I believe Kara is secretly 6, but abused kids love their parents; they want to be loved back. It's Dr Phil psychology, but there's also some truth to it. Children can be surprisingly accepting of their situations and as I understand it, it's a relatively common fantasy for an abused child - that their parent will change back into a good, loving parent no matter how much they also fear or resent or are angry at them. And I don't think Kara ever developed beyond that; she never had the tools or support to.

The poor Dr Phil psychology is the idea that her fantasising about acceptance would somehow magically heal her. And I agree that if that's the point of the reconciliation, it's not a good one. If anything this shows Kara is still removed from a clear, honest understanding of her mother and how mentally ill she was. She's still indulging in a fantasy and not accepting reality. The scene did nothing but convince me Kara was still a desperately lost child searching for someone to love her.

Well, you know my bizarre theory that she was convincing herself to commit suicide, but yeah, I'm inclined to agree that my reading may not coincide with Ron Moore's... ;)
She's still indulging in a fantasy and not accepting reality.

When you put it like that, it makes me think that she is still looking for ways to run away from her problems and not deal with all her baggage. And I thought she was starting to in reality. Talking to Anders about the abuse she suffered, sharing with Lee her fears were huge steps forward for her. She was opening up old wounds, letting them see Kara and not just Starbuck - trusting both men to accept and support her and they did! So to create this illusion of a mother who loved her and told her exactly what she wanted to hear so she was able to leave behind her life seems wrong and a disservice to the character.
I agree that she was finally starting to open up to Lee – he’s always been the person she was most open with, even more than Adama. Because Adama is her father figure not her friend or equal. And he assumed that role as a more stoic, authoritarian parent (though still loving) rather than one who would encourage her to confide in him. I’m not certain about Sam; some of her confession smacked of bravado. A sense that she wanted to work out what was going on but was still scared to really be vulnerable so she was needling him, telling him stuff she knew would shock him to test his reaction, and also as a way of confessing, but still stopping short of the easy support between her and Lee under the Viper. Or I’m just reading too much into it. Again.

I don’t find it a disservice to her character in my reading of her character arc – because my reading of her character arc is a tragic one. One where she never quite manages to get it together, no one ever quite manages to help her in time. Sometimes she comes close to finding solid ground, but really, she’s drowning, and all she does is slip further from the surface. But that’s because my interpretation of her character development focuses more on how messed up she was and less on her recovery (I guess because I see scant evidence of it). So this was a brave and fitting end.

If the point was some kind of recovery, then yes, this did a poor job of showing it. And I’m more than willing to admit that my reading of the character probably goes counter to conventional wisdom and probably even RDM’s intentions. Adama was supposed to sort her out as an officer back in Torn, and Leoben was supposed to guide her towards peace with her abusive past. Blah. I like mine better.