Asta 2

The New Lee Adama Promo

Normally, I wouldn't make a big deal out of new promos running on SciFi, even if it's a Lee promo, other than to post a link to where to find the clips. But I've watched this 20 second clip six times now because I think it's a pretty damn huge moment.

And the direct link: HERE.

"If my brother had climbed out of that cockpit, would it matter if he were a Cylon?"

There are several things that struck me about this clip. First, that they are bringing Zak up again. It's nice that the remember the guy, since he played such an important role in the mini series and early Season 1. That he's brought up in the context of 'What if he was a Cylon?' makes me wonder if it's foreshadowing to something to come. But, most significantly, Lee, who has been so adamant in his hatred of the Cylons, they are nothing but machines to him, is acknowledging that if it were Zak to suddenly return from the dead and it's because he's a Cylon he wouldn't necessarily care, he'd have his brother back. And it's telling us that if Kara is proved to be a Cylon, then he will accept her because it's Kara, someone he loves. So now he's making exceptions to his unwavering belief that Cylons aren't people, aren't individuals. Wouldn't the next step be understanding Helo's feelings for Sharon? Will he start looking at Caprica Six differently?

I also noticed he's saying this to Laura. (Side note: YAY! They're talking!) Showing her that his feelings may be changing may be important for one of two reasons. If Laura were to be the final Cylon, it could signal a willingness to stand by her as he has done in the past. Or this new belief could lead to further antagonism. If he's to play a role in her government, one that advocates airlocking Cylons, he could be a thorn in her side...again.

Whatever happens this season, I suspect I might be loving Lee Adama even more. ;)
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It is absolutely a huge moment for the character, it's almost too bad that we've watched it in a promo rather than in the episode itself.

But yeah, as much as I adore Lee, I really wasn't 100% certain what his reaction would be to Kara if he did think she were a cylon, because his hatred for their entire race has been so adamant through the whole series. I'm so happy they're allowing the character to take this step, because it's such a perfect and natural progression.

Edited at 2008-03-08 11:15 pm (UTC)
I can see why they chose that clip for a promo because it's ear-catching ;) and it shows you just mow much things may be shaken up this season in terms of the characters.

I was wondering how Lee would view Kara if she turned out to be a Cylon (which I don't think she is). I just couldn't see him turning his back on her. And I think this is a natural progression, after all, in 'A Measure of Salvation', when he was advocating wiping out the Cylon race, he never suggested they kill Athena with the rest. Not that he completely trusts Athena, but I think he believes she loves Helo and her child and he knows Helo loves her and, if nothing else, I don't think he'd want to cause Helo any pain. Now he can actually put himself in Helo's place and if he accepts a Cylon because he sees them as an individual and has feelings for them it would be logical for him to begin to question his ideas about the race as a whole and what their fate should be.
i'm not really sure he's talking to laura. he's on colonial one, but i doubt she'd bring up zak to her. i'm thinking that he's talking to his father, and that they're both there to see laura about the issue. he's been through this with his father, i'd make more sense - to me, anyways - if he were talking to him about this.

interesting take on the whole cylon issue. knowing lee - or, rather, wishing i knew lee - i'm willing to believe he'd accept kara, but shun the others. she'd be special, she'd be his, she'd be someone he knows, but i doubt he'd be willing to reconsider his stance on them as a race. perhaps as individuals, perhaps he'd be "nicer" to sharon, but i don't think - and i might be wrong, i'm probably wrong - that he'll turn 180 degrees and accept them.

regarding him and laura... i've been toying with the idea, of late, that he will succeed her somehow. i think that he left the military for a reason, and i think he has the potential to become the next leader, to take her place. he needs to get to the point where he can let go of his ideals to save the people, and i'd love it if laura told him, and not adama sr, as some speculate, that "sometimes the right thing is a luxury". if he can learn that, he can follow her. if he can learn to hold on to the right thing, but not let it get in the way, then he can be what i think he will end up being.
You could be right. I thought I saw red hair at the edge of the screen, but it could have been the brown of the chair. Not sure if they are there to see Laura about the issue given how casually dressed Lee is, but perhaps Adama came to Colonial One to ask his advice...which would be nice after how shabbily he treated him in 'Crossroads'.

I don't think Lee will be advocating making peace with the Cylons anytime soon ;), but he's admitting that if it were someone he cared about (Zak, Kara) that turned out to be a Cylon, it wouldn't matter because they are someone he loves and he has them back in his life. This now found
perspective I think also makes him more sympathetic to Helo and his relationship to Sharon, especially since Helo fell in love with Sharon before he knew the truth. So I think this subtle shift in his beliefs will prevent him from revisiting his idea in 'A Measure of Salvation' to eradicate the race, but I still see him advocating fighting those that wish to kill them. After all for every Athena and Caprica Six there are thousands that want to stick to the plan.

I've always believed that Laura was grooming Lee to succeed her. She knows he's a good man, a strong leader, and, most importantly, she trusts his judgment even if his choices don't always agree with hers. Now that he's left the military and working with her in some capacity we are inching closer to him being in a position of power. Not that I wish Zarek any ill will, but we know how Ron likes to kill off characters and I could see Zarek being killed off and Laura nominating Lee as his successor.
the quality of these things isn't all that good, and i didn't have the chance to see the promos on tv, but i really think that contextually speaking, lee could only be talking to adama. i just can't see the point of him bringing up zak to laura. billy, perhaps, or someone he might know she loved and lost, but zak?

i was thinking, in the early episodes, that he might follow her in office - or, at least, ideologically - but then they "broke up" and i kind of shelved the idea. lately it's come back to me. getting these two back, their friendship, their... whatever it is/was, would mean a lot to me. it is, regadless of how you take it, one of the most beautiful relationships pictured on screen. at least imho. :)
They remembered Zak!

I really hope that Zak doesn't end up as a Cylon, mainly because I think that would be...if not cliched then certainly unnecessarily melodramatic and soap operaish. We only have one Cylon spot left. It would not only be highly convenient, but also, I think a poor use of story-capital to make the last one Zak. It achieves nothing but a five-second shocking moment and really doesn't add anything beyond that, except raising awkward questions.

But I absolutely agree with everything else you're saying here, though you put it far more clearly than me.

What I'm desperately hoping for is for Laura to react to him as Season One Laura would do. That is, with the same patience and understanding even while she's disagreeing that she still manages to summon sometimes. Like when she was talking to the Chief in Dirty Hands. That, "Okay, we completely disagree. But you make sense, so I will respect you, even if I do whatever I like anyway," thing. Because that dynamic is. just. love.
I foresee Lee and Laura clashing, but I don't see her replacing him, in whatever position he's been placed in, simply because they disagree. I think part of her problem has been that she hasn't had anyone there to question her and challenge her beliefs. If it had been Lee and not Tori by her side or Adama that she was confiding in would the ill-conceived and rushed trial of Baltar gone on? Would Lee have pointed out to her in private rather on the stand that she, as well as so many others, were looking for someone to blame? I think we are going to see a very interesting dynamic between those two this season.

I think they could make Zak being the final Cylon work, but I'm not in love with the idea. Watching TMU, TMD last night I started thinking about the possibility of Billy being a Cylon. He was assigned to assist Laura just before the attacks. And after his death a Cylon is put in his job.
Ooh, I'm glad you mentioned Lee/Jamie. Have you been to Jamie is featured on there in both a solo shot and the group shots littered around the celebrity index page and the homepage. I have no idea what it's all about, but now that I think about it, I think the Jedi Chefs might have been at the SFX events I went to years ago...

Oh, and very cool and intriguing trailer. It makes me far more interested in this season than the first four eps' spoilers do at the Patriot Resource.
Thanks for the link! I had seen a couple of pics of Jamie from that event before, but it was great seeing the rest of the BSG cast and some of the Firefly actors. I'll have to repost the link later. :)
If Zak shows up as the final Cylon, I will be seriously annoyed, I think. I really hope that's not what's being foreshadowed.

And I hadn't really thought of Lee as being so very anti-Cylon, generally, though I'm not sure I ever noticed one way or the other. Hmm.

All in all, I continue to be intrigued by what the new season will bring, and that's the important part!
And I hadn't really thought of Lee as being so very anti-Cylon, generally, though I'm not sure I ever noticed one way or the other.

Putting aside he only thinks of them as machines, he argued for genocide in 'A Measure of Salvation'. Yeah, he pretty much hates all Cylons. ;) He does tolerate Athena and I think he believes for the sake of Helo and their child that she wouldn't betray them, but I don't think he's ever viewed her as a person. That may change now which I find very interesting.
Ha, I was about to post nearly the same observation about Lee in my LJ. It's a huge moment for him, if this is him wavering about his firm hatred of Cylons (and yes - I too am assuming that he is wavering while everyone suspects Kara).

How do you know he's talking to Roslin there? (I can't see it in the video, is she there?)

Very exciting (especially for us K/L shippers natch, hehe)
I thought I saw red hair at the edge of the screen, but it may have been the chair. He could be talking to Adama (and it would be nice if Adama was asking for Lee's opinion after treating him so badly in 'Crossroads'). Either way, it's still a fascinating moment in the evolution of Lee.
I saw a new one on the SGA finale. It seems to be mostly Kara and cylons, but Lee's in it. Have you seen that one?
I've seen all the group promos, I think, it's the character ones I keep missing on TV!
Oh Lee! Oh Zak! I haven't really been watching the promos (not watching somehow builds my anticipation even more, and I'm enjoying it!) but I just had to see this one. I think Kara's return and everyone's suspicions of her being a Cylon are really gonna turn around a lot of Lee's previous beliefs about Cylons and how he feels about them. He hates Cylons, but Kara could be a Cylon, and he loves Kara. Hmm, maybe you should be nicer to Helo now, buddy. :)
I was thinking about a clip in an earlier promo. Lee is in a blue shirt, Helo is standing behind him, and they are raising their glasses to someone or something. Lee and Helo seemed on good terms and participating in something together and I could see this whole situation bringing them closer, not just because Lee's Cylon hate is a wavering, but because Helo is Kara's friend and we know he won't care one way or another what she is. There could be some interesting new relationships on the show this season.
Damn. Now i can wait even more! It's great promo and it builds so many questions - i'd love to have all answers right now. Gawds, i miss him (them) so much!
most significantly, Lee, who has been so adamant in his hatred of the Cylons... is acknowledging that if it were Zak to suddenly return from the dead and it's because he's a Cylon he wouldn't necessarily care, he'd have his brother back. And it's telling us that if Kara is proved to be a Cylon, then he will accept her because it's Kara, someone he loves.


I am so thrilled that they appear to be giving Lee some good, solid, organic character development this season! Okay, yeah, it's still connected to the whole K/L(/Z) ship - not that I am complaining! - but it's got roots. It comes out of what came before. It's not random. I bet Jamie's happy to get some pithy storylines.
I agree. Even though it is a WHAT?! moment, it also makes sense. I've wondered if there was something that could, at the very least, soften Lee's views on the Cylons and thinking Kara could be one would certainly be a way to do it.
Thanks for sharing that moment.It does seem to be a huge moment for Lee. Maybe it is this dialogue with his father that may help change Bill's thoughts about Kara's return? Lee isn't always aware of it, but his father really does respect his opinion. I am so excited to see where they are going with Lee this season. I also love that this moment is linked to zak (with thoughts of Kara hanging heavily in the air).

I think that Lee may have been talking to his father here. He has that kind of vulnerable look, a tone in his voice that takes me back to other important, intimate moments with his father.
Sqeeee... Thanks for the link!

This is awesome. I too think Lee is talking to Laura. :)

He used words "my brother" instead of "Zak" here. If he had been talking to Bill or Kara, he'd surely used his brother's name instead. Other than those two, no one else knew Zak except Lee, so the fact he used relationship reference instead of name suggests he's not talking to his dad or Kara.

Now the only person (other than Bill and Kara) to whom Lee would bare his inner thoughts/feelings to is Laura IMHO.
It's nice to see someone else thinks it's Laura. :) And I do feel he is as likely to open up to Laura as his father, under certain conditions, even more so. Whoever he is speaking to, it's just such an interesting shift in his character. I'll be curious to see if it changes how he relates to Athena and perhaps even Caprica Six.
...under certain conditions, even more so.

::nodding head:: Yesss!

Whoever he is speaking to, it's just such an interesting shift in his character...

Hmmm, it certainly is. However, I feel the subtle shift has already started back in Season 3.

It's true that in Measure of Salvation, when Lee devised the strategy to eradicate the 7 models, he did not see them anything other than machines that had gone awry.

But that was at the time right after they escaped New Caprica. Up to that point, he had not had much interaction/contact with any of the Cylon models. Even though Adama had made Sharon a Colonial Officer, she was on Galactica, and under Bill's command.

By the time Take a Break from All Your Worries happened however, Lee has been back acting as CAG for awhile, and most certainly, worked with Athena for an extended period of time. Likely he still doesn't trust her completely, but I think his opinion of her/her model has changed. Otherwise, he would not have asked Chief if he ever wondered what might have been (with Boomer). I've always felt there's this subtext with that question--Lee was giving credence to the thought that Sharon/Boomer was more than a machine, that he tenuously considered her as a "woman"...

So there, I think the shift had started back then, maybe even subconsciously. And with the return of Starbuck from the dead, it was pushed forward to the conscious forefront.
I don't think Lee completely trust Athena, but I do think he believes she loves Helo and Hera and would do anything to safeguard them, thus he's able to work with her because they share a mutual desire to keep the fleet safe.

I agree Lee doesn't completely trust Athena. For him to believe in her love for Helo and Hera is a huge thing. That would mean he acknowledges Sharon is more than a machine. Machines don't have love, they are impartial, and programmed. Program can go awry, however that doesn't mean the machines are capable of feeling.

But somewhere down the line, working with Athena/Helo closely, going through relationship difficulties himself, it has to enter his conscious/subconscious that what Athena and Helo had was more solid and real than others', his own included.

Now I don't think Lee consciously acknowledged the cylon models can feel just like the humans do yet, but when he asked Chief if he ever wondered what might have been with Boomer, he was admitting what Chief and Boomer had was real, that Boomer had loved Chief. Like a woman.

So I think by that moment, Lee's view of Cylons has already shifted slightly.