The New Lee Adama Promo
Normally, I wouldn't make a big deal out of new promos running on SciFi, even if it's a Lee promo, other than to post a link to where to find the clips. But I've watched this 20 second clip six times now because I think it's a pretty damn huge moment.
And the direct link: HERE.
"If my brother had climbed out of that cockpit, would it matter if he were a Cylon?"
There are several things that struck me about this clip. First, that they are bringing Zak up again. It's nice that the remember the guy, since he played such an important role in the mini series and early Season 1. That he's brought up in the context of 'What if he was a Cylon?' makes me wonder if it's foreshadowing to something to come. But, most significantly, Lee, who has been so adamant in his hatred of the Cylons, they are nothing but machines to him, is acknowledging that if it were Zak to suddenly return from the dead and it's because he's a Cylon he wouldn't necessarily care, he'd have his brother back. And it's telling us that if Kara is proved to be a Cylon, then he will accept her because it's Kara, someone he loves. So now he's making exceptions to his unwavering belief that Cylons aren't people, aren't individuals. Wouldn't the next step be understanding Helo's feelings for Sharon? Will he start looking at Caprica Six differently?
I also noticed he's saying this to Laura. (Side note: YAY! They're talking!) Showing her that his feelings may be changing may be important for one of two reasons. If Laura were to be the final Cylon, it could signal a willingness to stand by her as he has done in the past. Or this new belief could lead to further antagonism. If he's to play a role in her government, one that advocates airlocking Cylons, he could be a thorn in her side...again.
Whatever happens this season, I suspect I might be loving Lee Adama even more. ;)
And the direct link: HERE.
"If my brother had climbed out of that cockpit, would it matter if he were a Cylon?"
There are several things that struck me about this clip. First, that they are bringing Zak up again. It's nice that the remember the guy, since he played such an important role in the mini series and early Season 1. That he's brought up in the context of 'What if he was a Cylon?' makes me wonder if it's foreshadowing to something to come. But, most significantly, Lee, who has been so adamant in his hatred of the Cylons, they are nothing but machines to him, is acknowledging that if it were Zak to suddenly return from the dead and it's because he's a Cylon he wouldn't necessarily care, he'd have his brother back. And it's telling us that if Kara is proved to be a Cylon, then he will accept her because it's Kara, someone he loves. So now he's making exceptions to his unwavering belief that Cylons aren't people, aren't individuals. Wouldn't the next step be understanding Helo's feelings for Sharon? Will he start looking at Caprica Six differently?
I also noticed he's saying this to Laura. (Side note: YAY! They're talking!) Showing her that his feelings may be changing may be important for one of two reasons. If Laura were to be the final Cylon, it could signal a willingness to stand by her as he has done in the past. Or this new belief could lead to further antagonism. If he's to play a role in her government, one that advocates airlocking Cylons, he could be a thorn in her side...again.
Whatever happens this season, I suspect I might be loving Lee Adama even more. ;)
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excited
But yeah, as much as I adore Lee, I really wasn't 100% certain what his reaction would be to Kara if he did think she were a cylon, because his hatred for their entire race has been so adamant through the whole series. I'm so happy they're allowing the character to take this step, because it's such a perfect and natural progression.
Edited at 2008-03-08 11:15 pm (UTC)
I was wondering how Lee would view Kara if she turned out to be a Cylon (which I don't think she is). I just couldn't see him turning his back on her. And I think this is a natural progression, after all, in 'A Measure of Salvation', when he was advocating wiping out the Cylon race, he never suggested they kill Athena with the rest. Not that he completely trusts Athena, but I think he believes she loves Helo and her child and he knows Helo loves her and, if nothing else, I don't think he'd want to cause Helo any pain. Now he can actually put himself in Helo's place and if he accepts a Cylon because he sees them as an individual and has feelings for them it would be logical for him to begin to question his ideas about the race as a whole and what their fate should be.
interesting take on the whole cylon issue. knowing lee - or, rather, wishing i knew lee - i'm willing to believe he'd accept kara, but shun the others. she'd be special, she'd be his, she'd be someone he knows, but i doubt he'd be willing to reconsider his stance on them as a race. perhaps as individuals, perhaps he'd be "nicer" to sharon, but i don't think - and i might be wrong, i'm probably wrong - that he'll turn 180 degrees and accept them.
regarding him and laura... i've been toying with the idea, of late, that he will succeed her somehow. i think that he left the military for a reason, and i think he has the potential to become the next leader, to take her place. he needs to get to the point where he can let go of his ideals to save the people, and i'd love it if laura told him, and not adama sr, as some speculate, that "sometimes the right thing is a luxury". if he can learn that, he can follow her. if he can learn to hold on to the right thing, but not let it get in the way, then he can be what i think he will end up being.
I don't think Lee will be advocating making peace with the Cylons anytime soon ;), but he's admitting that if it were someone he cared about (Zak, Kara) that turned out to be a Cylon, it wouldn't matter because they are someone he loves and he has them back in his life. This now found
perspective I think also makes him more sympathetic to Helo and his relationship to Sharon, especially since Helo fell in love with Sharon before he knew the truth. So I think this subtle shift in his beliefs will prevent him from revisiting his idea in 'A Measure of Salvation' to eradicate the race, but I still see him advocating fighting those that wish to kill them. After all for every Athena and Caprica Six there are thousands that want to stick to the plan.
I've always believed that Laura was grooming Lee to succeed her. She knows he's a good man, a strong leader, and, most importantly, she trusts his judgment even if his choices don't always agree with hers. Now that he's left the military and working with her in some capacity we are inching closer to him being in a position of power. Not that I wish Zarek any ill will, but we know how Ron likes to kill off characters and I could see Zarek being killed off and Laura nominating Lee as his successor.
i was thinking, in the early episodes, that he might follow her in office - or, at least, ideologically - but then they "broke up" and i kind of shelved the idea. lately it's come back to me. getting these two back, their friendship, their... whatever it is/was, would mean a lot to me. it is, regadless of how you take it, one of the most beautiful relationships pictured on screen. at least imho. :)
I really hope that Zak doesn't end up as a Cylon, mainly because I think that would be...if not cliched then certainly unnecessarily melodramatic and soap operaish. We only have one Cylon spot left. It would not only be highly convenient, but also, I think a poor use of story-capital to make the last one Zak. It achieves nothing but a five-second shocking moment and really doesn't add anything beyond that, except raising awkward questions.
But I absolutely agree with everything else you're saying here, though you put it far more clearly than me.
What I'm desperately hoping for is for Laura to react to him as Season One Laura would do. That is, with the same patience and understanding even while she's disagreeing that she still manages to summon sometimes. Like when she was talking to the Chief in Dirty Hands. That, "Okay, we completely disagree. But you make sense, so I will respect you, even if I do whatever I like anyway," thing. Because that dynamic is. just. love.
I think they could make Zak being the final Cylon work, but I'm not in love with the idea. Watching TMU, TMD last night I started thinking about the possibility of Billy being a Cylon. He was assigned to assist Laura just before the attacks. And after his death a Cylon is put in his job.
Oh, and very cool and intriguing trailer. It makes me far more interested in this season than the first four eps' spoilers do at the Patriot Resource.
And I hadn't really thought of Lee as being so very anti-Cylon, generally, though I'm not sure I ever noticed one way or the other. Hmm.
All in all, I continue to be intrigued by what the new season will bring, and that's the important part!
Putting aside he only thinks of them as machines, he argued for genocide in 'A Measure of Salvation'. Yeah, he pretty much hates all Cylons. ;) He does tolerate Athena and I think he believes for the sake of Helo and their child that she wouldn't betray them, but I don't think he's ever viewed her as a person. That may change now which I find very interesting.
How do you know he's talking to Roslin there? (I can't see it in the video, is she there?)
Very exciting (especially for us K/L shippers natch, hehe)
Yes.
I am so thrilled that they appear to be giving Lee some good, solid, organic character development this season! Okay, yeah, it's still connected to the whole K/L(/Z) ship - not that I am complaining! - but it's got roots. It comes out of what came before. It's not random. I bet Jamie's happy to get some pithy storylines.
I think that Lee may have been talking to his father here. He has that kind of vulnerable look, a tone in his voice that takes me back to other important, intimate moments with his father.
This is awesome. I too think Lee is talking to Laura. :)
He used words "my brother" instead of "Zak" here. If he had been talking to Bill or Kara, he'd surely used his brother's name instead. Other than those two, no one else knew Zak except Lee, so the fact he used relationship reference instead of name suggests he's not talking to his dad or Kara.
Now the only person (other than Bill and Kara) to whom Lee would bare his inner thoughts/feelings to is Laura IMHO.
::nodding head:: Yesss!
Hmmm, it certainly is. However, I feel the subtle shift has already started back in Season 3.
It's true that in Measure of Salvation, when Lee devised the strategy to eradicate the 7 models, he did not see them anything other than machines that had gone awry.
But that was at the time right after they escaped New Caprica. Up to that point, he had not had much interaction/contact with any of the Cylon models. Even though Adama had made Sharon a Colonial Officer, she was on Galactica, and under Bill's command.
By the time Take a Break from All Your Worries happened however, Lee has been back acting as CAG for awhile, and most certainly, worked with Athena for an extended period of time. Likely he still doesn't trust her completely, but I think his opinion of her/her model has changed. Otherwise, he would not have asked Chief if he ever wondered what might have been (with Boomer). I've always felt there's this subtext with that question--Lee was giving credence to the thought that Sharon/Boomer was more than a machine, that he tenuously considered her as a "woman"...
So there, I think the shift had started back then, maybe even subconsciously. And with the return of Starbuck from the dead, it was pushed forward to the conscious forefront.
But somewhere down the line, working with Athena/Helo closely, going through relationship difficulties himself, it has to enter his conscious/subconscious that what Athena and Helo had was more solid and real than others', his own included.
Now I don't think Lee consciously acknowledged the cylon models can feel just like the humans do yet, but when he asked Chief if he ever wondered what might have been with Boomer, he was admitting what Chief and Boomer had was real, that Boomer had loved Chief. Like a woman.
So I think by that moment, Lee's view of Cylons has already shifted slightly.