Asta 2

A Couple of Things That Make Me Go, Hmmmmmm.....

Both are BSG related. The first relates to this past Friday's episode, 'Guess What's Coming to Dinner'. It struck me as odd that Laura asked Kara to bring Captain Agathon to her. Why did she specifically want Helo to fly her to the baseship? Why not Kara who was right there and who is as curious as Laura is about the Hybrid's ramblings and what it means for both of them? You could argue that she was needed on Galactica, but Helo seems to still be co-XO so wouldn't he be valuable to have on Galactica rather than piloting Laura around? Or why not ask for Sharon, the Cylon, to fly her? It just doesn't make much sense that it had to be Helo accept Sharon needed to be on Galactica to shoot Natalie and the show wants to separate she and Helo for an extended length of time.



After GWCtD aired, I posted a brief reaction to a few scenes in the promo for the next episode, 'Sine Qua Non'. Today, looking at the SciFi site and the one line summary for the episode it made me rethink my initial speculation in regards to Lee. I'll only be referring to the promo and the blurb, but if you consider that spoilery, move along!

At the end of GWCtD, Laura Roslin is gone and Tom Zarek, as the vice president, should, rightfully, be sworn in as the next/interim president. It's logical that Zarek would nominate Lee to fill the position he is vacating. He nominated Lee for Quorum seat and he still harbors a belief, imho, that Lee can be manipulated. Having Lee by his side would, in his mind, strengthen his position. The Quorum would support the decision to make Lee vice president, even though a junior member, because they have a great deal of respect for him. This past week, they pushed him to confront Laura because he had already challenged her publicly and felt he was perhaps the one person who could get through to her - something he did succeed in doing. So when I saw the clip of Lee being sworn into office, with Adama and Zarek present and seemingly few others, it made perfect sense that he was being sworn in as the vice president.

I've presumed since Season 1 that Lee Adama would, someday, be the president of the Twelve Colonies, but not now with Laura still alive and Tom Zarek still the VP. Not to mention, Lee Adama rising from the CAG to Quorum delegate to President, leap frogging over many people in the process, in a matter of months, seemed to stretch credibility, even by this show's standards. Or does it? This blurb on the SciFI site made me wonder:

President Roslin's abduction by the Cylon Hybrid triggers a bitter power struggle within the colonial fleet.

My initial reaction to the "power struggle" reference was that Zarek and Adama go head to head as to who is in charge during Roslin's absence. I could see Adama arguing Laura is still alive and while a military operation is underway to rescue her, he's in total command of the fleet. Zarek would argue (and I'm certain Lee would support him) that the civilian branch of government must be maintained. After all, we don't know when she'll be back.

But what if the power struggle is not between Adama and Zarek over control of the fleet, but of Zarek having any real power? Zarek, when resigning the presidency in 'Collaborators', stated he believed that if he remained in power Adama would withhold military support. And what if the Quorum doesn't support the idea of President Zarek either? Could Lee Adama be fast tracked to becoming President Lee Adama? Not only would he presumably be a popular and non-controversial candidate amongst the general population, he'd be a popular choice of the military as well. Adama would likely support the nomination, not just because it's his son, but because he would believe he'd have some influence over him, though we know better.

Lee's sudden and unexpected rise to the presidency would also make a nice parallel to Laura's own unexpected rise to power. Lee might even have a slight advantage having learned a lot from her, from both her successes and her failures. And there was heavy foreshadowing this past week with Laura making repeated references to Lee being in her position, facing the burden of shepparding humanity to their new home and ensuring their safety, "What if it was you instead of me?"

So, will it be Vice President Lee Adama or President Lee Adama in two weeks?



And since I am talking about BSG, a belated Happy Birthday! to _wisteria. I'm glad you received such a nice surprise. ;) And another belated Happy Birthday! (hey, it was a busy weekend!) to treacle_a. I hope you had a lovely day. :)
  • Current Mood: curious curious
At this point, who knows what the show will do, but I'm hoping for VP because I think that'd be more believable. What you're saying definitely makes sense, but I just worry about Lee moving quickly through the ranks AGAIN (the move to Commander was a bit quick too, and some fans and critics cpmplained about that.) I mean, I'm a huge Lee fan (as I know you are aware!) and even I would have a hard time justifying President Lee as something more than the writers shoe-horning Lee in where they want him to be. And then there are the Lee-descenters in fandom who would definitely be like "President Lee?! That is ridiculous and way too soon!"

That said, another thought that crossed my mind is that Zarek is sworn in and then soon after is killed (Why? I have no idea. This is just my brain doing its thing.) and then Lee becomes President. Yeah, I don't know. :)

Another power struggle could be that maybe people don't want Lee to be VP? The Quorum does seem to respect him, and the fleet too (from the trial and his war hero days) but even so, maybe they'd still think it too soon for this young delegate to hold such a high office.

Hmm, food for thought! For two weeks...
I definitely agree that making Lee VP is much more believable. Even that would be a bit of stretch for me if not for Zarek currently being the VP and knowing how he favors Lee. Of all the people in the Quorum, it's logical, to me, that Zarek would pick Lee to fill his position (though I definitely see your point about a segment of fandom going WTF?). I also think Zarek could make a suitable argument that, even being a junior delegate with limited political experience, Lee has a great deal of leadership experience. And everyone has seen Lee's not shy about standing up for what he believes in.

As much as I would love seeing Lee as president, someday, it would seem to stretch believability. Though, it wouldn't be the first time the series has done that. And with a belief that Laura is alive and will, hopefully, return to the fleet then it would make the most sense that Zarek become president, temporarily, and Lee become the interim VP.

Edited at 2008-05-20 12:53 pm (UTC)
Although, you could make the argument that with his experience as being the Commander of a battlestar, he's a lot more equipped to be a leader than the Secretary of Education. *g*
Skipping all the spoilers.

One quick question: did you make "The Thinker" icon? I like the A.Rodin homage.
Yes, I did make it. :) I have to share credit with xwacky. She put the idea in my head referring to Lee as "the thinker" in a conversation we were having.
Totally random thought for you - I'd comment in more depth, but work, travel, etc, etc... <-- insert standard excuses here.

Anyway, random thought - one big factor in any decision on who's to be president could actually be which way all of Gaius flockets and fans vote. After all, we know that he has a significant following, although maybe not a substantial one - but to all of them, Lee's the man who not only got Baltar acquited of treason but also helped him back when the president had it in for him over their religion.

There's a certain irony in Lee having the potential support of a cult following he doesn't actually like ;)
Btw, when I say "vote", I know there's not actually going to be a vote, but I was thinking more in terms of the quorum wanting to acknowledge the groundswell of popular opinions and... well, you get the idea. *is tired*

Can I go home yet?
I agree, Lee would be popular among the nymphs. ;) And it's possible if Lee has greater support among the people, the military, and the Quorum then, once again, Zarek would step aside for the good of the fleet.
Hee, after catching the show and preview last night, I mused at my LJ today that I thought Lee was sworn in as the president. If Zarek becomes president, I think he would be in that scene instead, not Lee.

So why skipping over Zarek? I don't know. But it's not the first time. After New Caprica, Zarek was the VP, yet the presidency went to Laura Roslin. Maybe now they are going to explain more clearly how that happened with the story of Lee ascending to the coveted position?

If Lee becomes president, wouldn't that make Laura's "if you were in my shoe" sentiment towards Lee a nice foreshadowing? ;)
I need to read your post yet. I saw you had posted last night, but I was too sleepy to give it the focus it deserved.

It's possible that we do get to see Zarek sworn in, but that it made for a less interesting shot in the promo. ;) We could have Zarek sworn in as president followed by Lee sworn in as vice president.

If Lee becomes president, wouldn't that make Laura's "if you were in my shoe" sentiment towards Lee a nice foreshadowing?

I thought there was *a lot* of foreshadowing in the episode to Lee following in Laura's footsteps. Not quite anvilicious, but close! And it would be interesting for Laura to come back and see how successful (or not) Lee has been in her place.
No worry. I need to read your thoughts too. But I have to allot myself enough time to enjoy and digest it fully. :)

It's possible that we do get to see Zarek sworn in
Quite possible I suppose. Only the show has always been frugal on its footages. I can't imagine it would burn valuable airtime with both president and vice president's inaugurations. So I'm keeping my hopes up that Lee is sworn in the Prez! ;)

For some reason (quite obvious actually) that scene of Lee with his hand raised keeps reminding me Laura's sworn in scene from the mini-series.

Hee, "anvilicious"! I like that word. I learned something I didn't know before. ;)

And it would be interesting for Laura to come back and see how successful (or not) Lee has been in her place.
Yeah, VERY, with a good degree of apprehensions. Given the title of the upcoming episode, I'm anticipating all hell break loose. Lee may be in quite a lot of trouble. I just hope he prevails.
I skipped over your second set of thoughts because I'm trying to stay as unspoiled as possible. :)

But as for Helo, I can think of several larger storytelling reasons that he might be the one on the basestar. For one, now we've got Laura trapped over there with her biggest enemy and the man whose child she stole and with no identifiable allies--it ramps up the drama somewhat, perhaps (although the last time she saw Kara she tried to kill her, so there's certainly drama potential there, as well). Also, if learning what's going on with Hera is key, and the discovery involves something on the basestar and something on Galactica, maybe it makes sense to have one of Hera's parents in each place. And this one is pure speculation--I'm not spoiled for anything--but I've been wondering about Tamoh's Dollhouse commitments and whether we might see Helo bite the dust at some point. For some reason, when it was he on the basestar I thought, "oh, now Helo's going to die." But who knows! (Or, well, some people do, I'm sure, but I do not, nor do I want to before it all unfolds on my screen!)

Despite these potential larger narrative purpose, though, it really makes no logical sense for Laura to have asked for him then. Good storytelling involves actions that serve both a practical purpose and a larger narrative purpose, and even if this action will end up serving the latter, we sure haven't seen the former yet.
Also, if learning what's going on with Hera is key, and the discovery involves something on the basestar and something on Galactica, maybe it makes sense to have one of Hera's parents in each place.

It's possible. Maybe each parent is to receive a key piece of information as to Hera's fate. Or maybe Helo is to have his own epiphany. He's responsible for saving the Cylon race, what if he learns that was a mistake?

And this one is pure speculation--I'm not spoiled for anything--but I've been wondering about Tamoh's Dollhouse commitments and whether we might see Helo bite the dust at some point. For some reason, when it was he on the basestar I thought, "oh, now Helo's going to die."

Heh. That crossed my mind as well. Supposedly, Dollhouse isn't interfering with his commitment to BSG. On the other hand, Helo was supposed to have died in the mini series so, as far as I'm concerned, he's been living on borrowed time. And I wouldn't put it past Ron to have the basestar join up again with the fleet and have Laura and Baltar step foot back on Galactica and not Helo.
I wouldn't put it past Ron to have the basestar join up again with the fleet and have Laura and Baltar step foot back on Galactica and not Helo.

I wouldn't either. Though it just occurred to me that if he does kill off Helo at this point it wouldn't be Dollhouse related as Tahmoh was only cast in Dollhouse this year and these episodes were shot last year.
Even if all of these eps hadn't been filmed months ago, I wouldn't think Ron would kill off Helo until the back half of the season. I don't think Ron wants to waste the talent he has until he absolutely feels the characters need to die. Just as I'm sure Laura will hang on to the bitter end just because Mary is getting paid whether or not she appears in the episodes.
Not going to argue that Helo will live forever, but Dollhouse wrapped filming last week and Tahmoh's back up in Vancouver now. Dollhouse filming won't resume until July. BSG is supposed to finish in June.

For all I know, Helo is already dead and Tahmoh's just chilling up in Vancouver, but I wouldn't use Dollhouse to mark him for death necessarily.

That said, Dollhouse probably would interfere somewhat if any of the BSG TV movies happen. So we probably won't be watching "Battlestar Galactica: Helo's Crazy Adventure."
So we probably won't be watching "Battlestar Galactica: Helo's Crazy Adventure."

Wait. Didn't we already have that with 'The Woman, King'? ;)
re helo: i was wondering about that too. my initial thought was that she'll take kara along as well as him. i don't see why she would have called for athena though. something else that i kept thinking about was that out of the three - kara, helo and athena - helo knew about the "real" plan with regard to the cylon alliance, and if things got tricky on the basestar, she could rely on him.

re lee: until we see, both specs make sense. i am convinced that lee will at some point ascend to the presidency, but i don't think i ever had a logical plot-related context for that belief. it just seemed logical for him, as a character, given his history with both adama and laura, to get there at some point. we'll see. i for one am very very curious to see how he and zarek will manage this, since it looks like adama's hellbent on finding the baseship and his girlfriend.
something else that i kept thinking about was that out of the three - kara, helo and athena - helo knew about the "real" plan with regard to the cylon alliance, and if things got tricky on the basestar, she could rely on him.

Ah, good point. He does have a piece of information the others do not.
It just doesn't make much sense that it had to be Helo accept Sharon needed to be on Galactica to shoot Natalie and the show wants to separate she and Helo for an extended length of time.

Totally agree. Maybe she wanted something pretty to look at? Leoben is just too creepy for Laura. :)

The best quasi-legit reason I can come up with is that she seems to now kind of trust Helo. Whereas she's still suspicious of Kara and Sharon. Or at least I'd say she probably trusts Helo more than the cylon/suspected cylon. And Helo is willing to work with the cylons and is familiar with them?

Vice President Lee Adama. Check out the preview clip on Hulu (which doesn't address that question directly, but is up and should be watched, though it does make one scenario more likely than the other--vague enough? :) ).
Or at least I'd say she probably trusts Helo more than the cylon/suspected cylon. And Helo is willing to work with the cylons and is familiar with them?

That's as good an argument as any.

And you temptress! I've been going back and forth on watching the preview clip. I'll probably cave later. ;)
And you temptress! I've been going back and forth on watching the preview clip.

Hehe. Lee's in it...

And going back to the TV movies, I'm kind of fine with Helo not being in them as I feel like Helo has just been one perpetual afterthought on BSG (after the mini, 'hey, let's not kill him!'; in S4, network points out Helo hasn't been given shit to do, Ron: 'oh yeah'). LOL. The fact that Ron is still misprouncing Tahmoh's name 4 seasons in is probably a sign.

And just to be clear, I don't actually think Helo's role should be much bigger on BSG. I'm really fine with it, but I think Dollhouse is a much more promising opportunity for Tahmoh.

I'm a little torn about the whole idea of these TV movies actually as I think they're really ham-strung by not being able to affect the overall arc of the show. They can't help but be kind of irrelevant. Razor was interesting, but there was a sense of inevitability that hung over it. What do you think?

I mean seeing the missing year would be cool, but practically I don't think they could do that as the New Caprica sets are gone and were really really expensive. Plus we've already hit the highlights of that year. I'll just be really intrigued to see what they do. Unless we get something all from the cylon perspective or something, I have a hard time imagining what could be fresh.
I watched. ;) Still no definitive answers about who succeeds Laura, but I see I'm going to want to smack Adama again! :p

I have mixed feelings about the movies too. I hate to condemn the idea until I hear more specifics, but I'm not sure what gaps from the past need to be filled in. I could see them possibly doing one movie to see what was happening in the lives of these characters right before the attacks, but that is about it. I'm also uncertain how interested the cast is to participate. Jamie doesn't seem very enthused and was quick to mention that he's not sure what his contract situation is with the show in regards to doing anything beyond Season 4. Katee and Tricia both have reoccurring roles now on other series. And I doubt Mary and Eddie will be hard up for offers.
Re: Helo - I think it might be the fact that her visions involve Hera. She brought Baltar because he was in her vision- maybe she brought Helo along for (sort of) the same reason, except that she trusts him more than Athena - and she'd like to have a human with her other than Baltar. ;)

Re: The Promo - wow. I hadn't watched it, and I'd just assumed that Laura would be back by the end of the episode. This is going to be interesting!