Asta 2

Well, I Haven't Done This In Awhile

I'm disturbed and nauseated by what I read. They cut off Spike's hands?! OK, I'm willing to reserve judgment and say there is a reason for this - the girl has issues, reliving her past, believing Spike was involved, blah, blah, blah.

Besides, since vampires have incredible healing ability, Fred & Co. are able to retrieve his hands, and we know W&H have mystical healers at their disposal, I'm sure by the next ep Spike will already be healing. I can even take into account that the CGI for a handless Spike for the remainder of the season is too cost prohibitive.

Still, I'm not sure I'll be able to watch those final moments. Even I'm getting sick of seeing the guy get tortured. Yeah, the other characters go through a lot of torture too. I'm just not as emotionally invested in what happens to them.

On the bright side, Andrew is back. Cool. But are we to believe he hasn't told Buffy that Spike is alive? And, if this is episode 99 of the series and Cordelia is to return in number 100, how does she fit into all this?

On an unrelated note, DB Woodside, at an appearance In Dublin this week, responded to some questions regarding season 7. I had already heard that he was supposed to be bumped off by mid season. And it's nice to hear SMG had something to do with saving his job. But the stuff about being a love interest for Buffy and his death adding to her depression? Um, yeah, sure, whatever.

So, in addition to resolving her relationship with Spike, ME considered having Buffy be romantically involved with Wood and/or Xander in the shows final year. Slut!

Seriously though, I got to love how DB Woodside and NB both in the past week have tried make out how pivotal they could have been. Get over it guys, shows over.

I think my favorite part was DB explaining that he was MIA for four episodes mid season while ME rethought the arc. Interesting, since, according to Jane Espensen, it came to her in bed one night to make Wood Nikki's son. And, from the way I understood it, that idea came to her relatively early in the season.
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LOL, I was gonna be good and not tell you about that spoiler so it wouldn't bother you! But now I'm glad to have someone to discuss it with other than Cindy, who wasn't happy about it either.

Not only do I not want to see Spike tortured again, I'm just against it in principle. Is AtS resembling a slasher movie more this year than ever before? The show is adult and dark, but I don't remember them going to these lengths to shock viewers.

As for Andrew, I can't wait to see him :) But, I also can't wait to see the ep (as I am not reading anymore spoilers on this) to see just what he's doing in LA and what he knows, and what Buffy may or may not know. It's intriguing.

As for DB Woodside's and Nick Brendon's remarks - I don't know how anyone can take these seriously. Since the show is over they can say anything they want, who's going to contradict them? But we know Jane E. came up with her idea fairly early, and there is no way Buffy makes that kind of connection with a brand new character that soon. And since she's never shown one iota of romantic interest in Xander, same thing. I go by Joss' words - he said he'd keep Buffy, Willow and Xander friends, he felt it was important to keep that relationship intact (said at a comic con around the beginning of season seven). I wouldn't be surprised if some things were bandied about before the season, that happens all the time - but they came to the (correct) conclusion that Spike and Buffy needed resolution - that was the more dramatically interesting story.

BTW, we just came back from seeing Love Actually. Loved it! Colin Firth - sigh.
I looked for you on IM last night but you weren't there to discuss these spoilers. :( I forgive you though if you were seeing Colin. ::Sigh:: Actually, I'm supposed to see the movie again this afternoon with my Mom. :)

As for the spoilers...I've been kind of hit and miss looking at them this season. But, anytime I see people getting their knickers in a twist, I fell compelled to look. As gut wrenching (and turning) the info was, I'm glad I know. I would have been in complete shock if I simply saw it play out on screen. I know Spike will be alright by episode 12. And, mercifully, he's unconcious during the *gulp* amputations. :( But, I'm still trying to see the point to it all. As much as I hate network interference, part of me still hopes thw WB will step in and say "Hell No!".

BTW, if you wish to discuss further, feel free to give me a ring tonight or I can give you one. Might me easier than IMing. Especially when I know Cindy may have a few things to say. ;)
I'd try to stay spoiler-free for Angel, but I'm rapidly reaching that paralysis caused by not caring very much.

If they cut off his hands, I'm guessing Spike becomes corporeal soon. But alas, still unable to diddle his willie. ::snickers:: Ok, that's mean even for me, yet I feel unpenitent.

And oh, WHATEVER, DB and Nick! Yeah, you da men. Buffy would certainly have 'noticed' Xander in that special way after hanging out with him for 7 years. Then, she could have decided to be 'gay now' and developed a Very Special Relationship with Willow.
Re: Ewww
And oh, WHATEVER, DB and Nick! Yeah, you da men. Buffy would certainly have 'noticed' Xander in that special way after hanging out with him for 7 years. Then, she could have decided to be 'gay now' and developed a Very Special Relationship with Willow.

And don't forget the UST with Anya! :p

I just love that months after the show has ended we get to watch a pissing contest between two guys over a fictional character. I recall fans getting upset when there was even a remote possibility of Wood and Buffy hooking up. I really didn't believe for a second ME would introduce a new realtionship that late in the game when they had so many other issues and relationships to resolve. Yes, I'm a Spuffy fan, but, if that wasn't to be, even I would have been saying "Hey, what about Angel?"

There were and are two important romantic relationships in Buffy's life. That wasn't going to change half way into the final season. Sorry Nick, shagging you would have been too incestuous. And DB, just too damn boring.

As for Spike's hand issues, yeah, I guess it's pretty obvious he's corporeal again. Guess he had to be in order to lop off his hands. :( This whole thing seems bizzare even by ME standards (and yes, I remember Conner and Cordy which now seems slightly less disturbing. :p)
Re: Ewww
Just had to say this - after listening to these two guys, it makes me appreciate James' "Buffy really loves Angel" comments ;) At least she really did love him. lol.
So Lynn tells me this spoiler/casting side/whatever on the way to see Love Actually (which I actually LOVED!)Good timing or what? Thank God we saw this wonderfully romantic adult comedy or I'd have been seriously depressed all night. As it is, I'm seriously disturbed by this turn of events. I usually go along with anything ME does because, Hey! it's their story, but tortured amputation is where I have to say a great big WHOA! Especially because it's Spike but I gotta say I don't want to see this happening to *anyone* on Angel. This is right out of CSI and I can hardly take that.

But back to Spike. I understand if his past has to come back to haunt him and all that will imply. His past, nor Angels, cannot be completely or easily wiped out by some good deads or even saving the world. Lessons learned and all that. They can however portray this in a less gruesome manner.

I've been trying to be unspoiled, but I'm with asta on this. Stumbling into this would not be a good thing.

(yep, we gotta talk about this)
I'd kind of like to talk about it too. Plus, I have no life Saturday nights ;) I'm going to declare an open chat both on PLB and in my journal. 8:00 PM EST?
BTW, I'm not trying to take over or anything. If chat doesn't work for anybody, that's fine. It's just an option/offer/pathetic attempt to help. ::puts in cute kitten picture so she can't be resisted::
At the moment I have no plans. I'll try to pop in tonight if I'm able. I definitely want to make sense of this all.
Now, I'm also a bit worried about the 'Spike's past coming back to haunt him' thing. My gut feeling is that it's a horrible case of mistaken identity. Especially since all we know of the girl's tormentor is that he wears heavy boots and a black t-shirt and jeans. Not exactly an uncommon outfit. Plus, from what little I read (I skimmed), Spike doesn't seem to know the girl or what she is talking about.

On the other hand, what if it was him that did these terrible things to her? I know he did some awful things in his time. I beleived him in NLM when he told Buffy she didn't know the real him and what he did to girls Dawn's age. But, do we have to see it played out on screen? I don't think so. I got the impression that while Spike may not yet be worthy of redemption and reward, that the guilt, being apart form Buffy, being disconected from th eworld and fearing an eternity in Hell was suffering enough. We have to slice off his hands too?

This sounds like it could be the darkest episode ever in the history of both shows. It better be the best written episode ever to pull it all off.
Are they emphasizing how evil Spike is again? How old is this girl? He hasn't done anything for 5 years, and didn't do any tormenting (other than to Buffy and Angel) in S2 BtVS. I got the impression he had been busy with Dru's illness for some time before that...not to busy to kill and feed, but too busy to spend time tormenting.

Possibly a wildfeed is needed.
Oh, I had to be very careful to not catch even the tiniest glimpse of the spoilers...

Because I just wanted to comment on the N/B thing: As far as I understand (and according to elfgirl), ME wasn't planning anything like that. Nick Brendon talked to SMG about this, and then it turned out that ME had different plans. Also, I don't think it was ever an option, not only because it would have destroyed the whole Xander/Anya story line which was so necessary for both of them. Xander would never have been more than a friend to Buffy, becoming a love interest wasn't his job on the show.

As for Buffy/Wood: Well, something was definitely going on there but didn't go further because of Buffy's involvement with Spike. Killing Wood would have been consistent with my take on the show: i) 'Wood' stood (like Holtz on AtS) for 'stake first, ask questions later', 'never trust a vampire', 'vampires are demons, they don't/won't change', because stake-wood (the 'Wood Principle'); and ii) the first half or so of S7 was some sort of re-telling S6, Buffy dealing with what she had gone through, and how much of it might have been her own fault because she stopped fighting and neglected the 'Wood Principle'-stake alert, and how the slayer almost died--which would have been symbolised by Wood's death.

That's how I see it.:-))
Thanks for traversing the spoiler expanse to post. :) I never thought either coupling was a viable option. It was too late in the series to introduce a new relationship (Buffy/Wood) or to drastically alter an existing one (Buffy/Xander). While Nick and Sarah may have discussed the possibility, it certainly doesn't mean ME considered it (thank God). Resolving the relationship with Spike was necessary for Buffy to confront some issues and for Spike's march toward redemption.

And with the exception of Willow and Kennedy (I'm not bashing Kennedy, I didn't mind her as a character, just not paired with Willow), ME had a tendancy to allow chemistry to help dictate pairings on the show. I and most people never saw any sparkage between B/X or B/W.