Asta 2

Podcast for 'Sometimes a Great Notion'

Last week, beccatoria asked me if I still planned on listening to the podcasts so you all don’t have to. The answer is, yes, yes I do! ;) Of course, it occurred to me that, thanks to Ron’s technical difficulties and wonky posting by SciFi, I missed a few for Season 4.0. Being a completist, I’ll probably get to them at some point....after the series ends...::weeps::

This is the darkest episode they’ve done..…so far.

What happens when you take the fondest dream away from all these characters? This episode we get the first of the answers they will be providing.

They wanted to make it as bad as possible, have everything fall to shit. They have no hopes. They wanted them to deal with what happens when it sucks, wanted the people at the top, Laura and Adama, to lose faith. Before, no matter how bad it got, Laura and Adama were there. They would soldier on, lead the way, and always got to a place where you’d understand they’d survive.

It was decided that in the last run of episodes they would lose some characters. It’s right for the style of the show. And they decided early on Dee would die here.

Laura returns to Galactica and doesn’t know what to say. She has always been able to say something. She’s losing faith by the second. Laura coming through the crowd and losing her way was an accident. On the set, Mary actually walked in the wrong direction and the camera just followed her. Nankin liked the mistake and when they did the reverse shot they decided to run with that idea.

The babysitting scene was almost cut, but Ron put it back in. He liked it because it’s so out of context. Amidst the despair and bleakness, they have to raise this little girl and keep their lives going.

There was an incredible discussion regarding the backstory about earth, the thirteenth tribe and Kobol. How does this all add up and make sense? They worked it through in several different ways. Not everything is fully explained yet, but will be in the last few episodes. The fundamental idea is once upon a time there was a place called Kobol where the gods and men lived together. Man stole fire from the gods. Fire was the knowledge of life and how to create life and they created their own Cylons. It was that creation and the destruction of paradise that was the end of Kobol. Twelve tribes went one way and the thirteenth tribe of Cylons went the other way and settled a planet they called earth. The Cylons repeated the pattern and destroyed themselves as well. All of this has happened before and will happen again.

Originally, as scripted, the episode was to have a complicated flashback structure framed by the Adama/Tigh conversation. All the other stories were interspersed throughout their conversation. Nankin dispensed with the framing device in his cut and Ron felt it worked perfectly. Ron’s instinct as a storyteller is to do the razzle dazzle too much. He likes flashbacks, mixing up time, f***ing up the chronology, but it’s not appropriate for every scenario.

They wanted someone to pay a heavy price for this discovery. Not everyone should come back from that. Dee was to take the hit. She despairs at the beginning, but from that point forward she looks like she’s trying to get back on the horse, to be optimistic. At the time of her talk with Lee, has she made up her mind to end her life? Is she just marking time? Ron feels those are questions best left to the audience. But, to Ron, she’s probably been contemplating it since the moment on the raptor. She can’t face the notion of journeying forever with nothing to hope for = for the off chance they might find a planet to call home one day.

Ron liked they got back to the Lee/Dee relationship in Dee’s last episode. Ron admits, again, they rushed the relationship early on and he didn’t know quite what to do with it. The relationship jig-jagged back and forth too many times. But it’s nice at the end and works well.

Ron mentioned Dee being there from the beginning.

Leoben gets to a place where he doesn’t know what to do or say while Kara is still plunging forward and seeking answers. She’s going to places saner and more deliberate people would not and should not go. Leoben’s lost and we’ve never seen him like before. He has a break of faith. Everything he thought he knew…he was the one who could see things and if he doesn’t have that what does he have?

SciFi complained about Kara’s corpse, a bit. Ron thinks they may have trimmed a few frames.

The WAG strike was called as the episode was about to begin shooting. Because of that there were no change pages; the cast and crew were on their own. Ron terrified the crew by coming up to speak to them because they thought he was coming up to pull the plug. He gathered the cast and crew in CIC and let them know he wanted them all to continue to work for as long as possible. He was sensitive to the responsibility to his people. He didn’t think the show would be cancelled, but, if it was, he wanted them to make it a great episode.

Anders finding the guitar handle had been dropped in the directors cut. Ron wanted it reinserted because it helped tie the music into the mythology. Anders was on earth and had played that song for his friends. It was also intended that he wrote it, but the subtlety of that may not have come through. (It didn’t.)

Dee’s death was to be a sucker punch. They wanted us to think Lee and Dee were getting back together. Amid the bleakness, they’d rekindle their romance and something good would happen for these two people. At least Lee is hoping something better is going to come of all this. Maybe there is something for them after all. It’s one of the best shocks they’ve done. Kandyse didn’t give anything away. Dee wanted to go out at a moment if happiness. She didn’t want to continue to suffer, to go along on the journey from hell. The beat with Gaeta - his reaction to Dee’s death is one factor that plays into where his story arc is going.

Terry Moore, who quit reading scripts so she could be surprised, felt uneasy during Dee’s scene. But she thought she was the Fifth Cylon. ;)

There was a longer version of the scene of Lee with Dee’s body with more discussion between Lee and Adama about possible motives, why they wouldn’t know, etc. Ron felt it was long and they could do with less and the emotions would still come through.

Ron remarked that there is more and more grey in Adama’s hair (I hadn’t noticed) and Adama’s drinking is getting more and more problematic.

There was a version where Adama’s visit with Laura came after his trip to the morgue and that’s what pushed him to go see Tigh. EJO was told to make the scene uglier. To make it raw and emotional and have Adama say ugly things to Tigh in only a way friends can.

The fox story came from David Weddle and Ron felt it played well into Tigh walking out into the ocean. There was also a second story that Ron asked them to cut because the fox story was stronger.

After this ep, do you want to keep watching this show? You don’t want to see the characters like this or the ship falling apart. You watch because you have hope and you are rooting for these people on some level. You stick with them because it’s going to be a good story, but it might be hard to watch.

The scene between Lee and Kara was slightly longer. They talked a bit more about Dee and what she meant to him and puzzle out reasons for her death. The bandage on Kara’s neck – Ron wasn’t sure why it was there. She was supposed to have some slight injury on planet and didn’t notice it. There was a big blood stain in middle of bandage, but it was distracting so they took it out.

Adama’s not telling other people to pull it together because he is still trying to pull it together himself.

There was more of Baltar in early drafts. He was talking to his flock more. That was pushed into the next couple of episodes.

This was always intended to be D’Anna’s last episode. Lucy came in just for the day to shoot her scene. D’Anna’s in a place of despair as well.

In a draft of the script, Tyrol stated he wasn’t going back to Galactica. He was going to live on the Cylon baseship. It’s not a place they wanted to go to yet and it robbed decision points from some of the other people.
  • Current Mood: calm calm
I really, really, really appriciate you doing this so I don't have to. Your recaps as succient and point out what I think is important. Glad to hear you're doing them again this season!
I didn't have that problem with the scene. It seemed as though Dee has babysat before (maybe she's the one that watched Hera for two months while Helo and Athena were on the Demetrius?) and, even though Helo knew how devastated Dee was by the discovery of earth, there's no reason to assume she'd cause Hera any harm.

This seemed to be quite a divisive episode. People either loved it or hated it.
Thanks Asta!! I briefly debated tuning in to the podcasts today, but then remembered how RDM has fried my brain in the past, so I decided against it. :D Glad you are made of stronger stuff than the rest of us! (We should give you a call sign!)
Yay! Thank you!

It doesn't sound like that much was cut from this episode (although I do wonder about those promo shots of HeadSix on wrecked Earth?), and it also doesn't sound like there were any srs WTF moments (well, except for letting EJO adlib, obvs).

Basically, I find myself surprisingly in agreement with the podcast! I'm glad they cut the flashback sequence and that Moore recognised it wasn't the place for it, both because it wasn't and also because I'm not sure I could have handled THAT SCENE with Tigh and Adama spanning the entire episode.

I wish they'd been clearer that Anders had written the song; I find that quite cool. Anders/Tory is the new Dylan/Baez! Or something. But I'm glad they left the guitar neck, even if it is weird it survived at the centre of a nuclear blast for that long. Perhaps it blew in on the wind from elsewhere and is part of an electric guitar with primarily a plastic neck? Eh, who cares.

I'm glad Tyrol isn't going to the baseship yet, but I do understand why he'd agree to go. Tigh has a) Bill and b) a position of authority and I think a newfound commitment to trying to live up to it. Sam might go, but I think would want to stay because of Kara and because he also has a place (assuming he is allowed to retain his rank) as a pilot doing something meaningful. Sam is a fighter and I think will still want to assert his identity. But Tyrol's just a specialist now and has kind of gone with the easiest-route-exhausted-zen thing, so yeah. I can see him just rolling on over to the basestar and trying to make the best of it there. Tory I'm just going to assume moved her things in like, yesterday.
It doesn't sound like that much was cut from this episode

No, it didn't. And it sounded as if what was cut wouldn't have added anything to the episode and would have dragged down the pacing. It's why I was happy the Lee/Kara scene in 'Six of One' was cut. ;)

(although I do wonder about those promo shots of HeadSix on wrecked Earth?)

Yeah, I was wondering about that too and he made no mention of HeadSix ever being in the episode. I wonder if he forgot about her inclusion or if there was a reason he avoided talking about it? He purposely did no commentary over the final scene and said he'd talk more about Ellen in subsequent podcasts.

I'm not sure I could have handled THAT SCENE with Tigh and Adama spanning the entire episode.


I wish they'd been clearer that Anders had written the song; I find that quite cool.

Me too because it means Anders created the trigger to unlock their memories.

I can see him just rolling on over to the basestar and trying to make the best of it there. Tory I'm just going to assume moved her things in like, yesterday.

Hmm. I just thought of something, but I better email you about it. ;)
I noticed it hasn't been posted on SciFi yet for download, though I see I can watch with podcast on SciFi rewind. Do you know if it's posted on iTunes now (which I don't have no my computer anymore, of course...)?
You likely have an answer by now (sorry, I was watching President Obama :), but, I just looked, at the podcast is up at SciFi. I ended up listening to it on Hulu. Not sure about itunes. That site confuses me.
I totally forgot to check today (Obama!!) so thanks for the reminder! I'll listen to it tonight.
i did think anders wrote the song! i mean, that totally got through to me. then again, i'm weird. :D

i loved the babysitting scene! it showed me both that home, as a concept, for helo and athena at least, isn't earth, but their family, and that dee was trying, in her own way, to spend what i was sure she had decided would be her last day, the most peaceful and wonderful way she could. helo's family is peaceful, they are happy. they are what each and every one of these characters could be, but isn't, for they're all searching for something else, or have responsibilities that go beyond those they love.

thank you for listening to these and telling us all about it, btw. :D
i did think anders wrote the song! i mean, that totally got through to me.

Go you! :) I can't say it did or didn't occur to me. I didn't think that much about it. ;) But I think it raises some interesting questions. Is it just a song he wrote or does it have special meaning? Was it written as a trigger so they could recall their former lives?

I thought the Helo/Athena/Hera scene was to show us that life does go and has to go on for some people. As devastated as Helo and Athena may have been, they have this little girl to love and take care of and she is still the future.
my first thought was "omgs, anders is bob dylan and he wrote that". can't say i thought about it further, though. we'll see whether it means anything beyond the fact that it WAS the trigger.

what i did wonder about was whether he wrote it for tory, kara (???) or someone else completely.