Asta 2

Podcast for 'The Oath' - The Super Bowl Edition!

Hey, I actually wanted to smack Ron upside the head once during the podcast. It's been awhile!

The mutiny is a key event in the second half of the final season, when the battle lines are really drawn and the fleet might seriously tear itself apart. They had always alluded to dissension among the civilian ships and arguments between the people on Galactica, but there had never been an outright mutiny. This was the time to bring that to fruition.

In early drafts, Adama was more secretive that he and Laura are sleeping together. He came to the door and got the coffee from his orderly to protect the fact that Laura is there. The writers wanted to make it more overt, they’re not trying to hide it, it is what it is. They have Laura walk out and play it like it’s no big deal. They knew Michael Hogan would do a great job with Tigh’s reaction and Mary would enjoy playing off Micheal’s reaction. Laura and Adama are making no bones about being a couple and she’s not even trying to be the president. They’re just being domestic. Ron likes the feeling of domesticity of the scene and it’s a counterpoint to the mutiny underway.

We miss a beat of Gaeta laying out the plan, which is intentional. We go with it and experience the mutiny as it happens.

The time and location stamps were added late in post production. Ron watched early cuts and while the story was really moving, he felt like it was taking too long. Shouldn’t Adama figure this out by now? If they put the location and time up periodically you can see where you are and how fast it's happening. It made it feel like it was roaring ahead at a breathless pace.

It was not originally scripted that Zarek picks up the wrench and kills Laird. Ron thought they needed something more brutal and uglier in the teaser. It was also important to see the plausibility of the plan. Gaeta had ways of covering all the possibilities. He had excuses and answers for Laird’s logical questions, but Laird needed to follow procedure. Gaeta didn’t think Laird would push it so far. Zarek, who has been involved in coups and revolutions before, knows when he has to take matters into his own hands. He knows when you have to step up and spill some blood. Skulls reaction to Laird’s death shows how deep the divisions really are on Galactica and how a mutiny could take place at all. Zarek and Gaeta have conflicting agendas; Zarek is much more pragmatic.

Ron talked about the director, John Dahl. Terry Moore had actually worked with John on all his films. Most of the talk involved his directing style and how he was able to make the ship look so big.

Anders and Seelix is one example of making efforts to connect disparate threads. They acknowledge the relationship that never quite got off the ground. And the attack shows the brutality and anger they have towards the Cylons.

The mutiny was made plausible by Gaeta’s unique position. He’s trusted and works communications as well as damage control. He has the ability to manipulate perceptions. You have to put yourself in Adama’s place; he would believe everything Gaeta was telling him. It was very important that the mutiny took place in a believable way so Adama didn’t look like a fool on his own ship. (Sorry, Ron, I don’t think you quite succeeded there. ;)

Another thing that made the mutiny possible was Galactica is severely undermanned. Word would not travel fast. The Galactica had a skeletal crew to begin with, since it was going to be decommissioned, and they have lost people since then. Big areas of the ship would be empty and security would be a fraction of what it should be. Gaeta is using their weaknesses against them.

In early drafts, the situation with Zarek and the Quorum happened faster. Zarek declared Laura was incompetent or at least had abandoned her post. He wanted to be declared president, the Quorum went along with his reasoning, and did what he wanted. Lee refused to accept his authority and it drove him back to Galactica to get Laura to take control of the situation. Ron didn’t want the Quorum to turn to him so quickly. The coup had to take place at a slower pace.

The scene where Kara saves Lee was an opportunity to bring back the Starbuck we knew and loved. It was nice to put guns in her hands again and watch her kicking ass and taking names.

The scene with the Agathons is a scary one. It bothers Ron every time he sees it. In bringing Gage back from ‘Pegasus’, he wanted to put faces to the mutineers as well as bring continuity back into the show.

The episode reminds him a bit of ‘Valley of Darkness’ (me too!). While it has certain overtones of that episode, this is scarier because you don’t know who is friend or foe. It feels as if everything is spiraling out of control.

Gaeta is right and has a legitimate point of view. Adama is leading them to hell. Their greatest enemy is now supposed to be their friend. Earth turned out to be crap. Why should they listen to him?

Gaeta is driven by losing his leg, but also by legitimate concerns. He’s always been skeptical of the Cylons. He worked with Baltar on New Caprica and saw the occupation. He can’t believe where the Admiral and President are taking them all and has been railing against the leadership since serving on the Demetrius. When Adama announced they would be putting Cylon technology on the ship and forming an alliance, he snapped. He’s only go so far and no farther.

The scene where Lee and Kara find Laura, it’s the moment where Laura Roslin is back. When the shit hits the fan, she’s there. She steps up. She’s not sitting on the couch bemoaning her fate and wanting to be left alone to die. She steps to the fore.

The scene with Baltar shows how the people are on their own. They are trying to protect themselves the best they can, barricading their sections of the ship.

It was fun to put Lee and Kara back together with guns in their hands, fighting side by side. Their circumstances have changed so much. It’s iconic to have Apollo and Starbuck together fighting the good fight, guarding one anothers backs, and it was great they could get back to that idea as they approach the final few episodes.

The events from this point to the end of the series – seeds are germinating in all these episodes. Things that, in retrospect, got us to the end of the series were born here. You can’t see the pattern right now, but there is a pattern going on.

Zarek knows Adama should have been executed immediately, but Gaeta has a different agenda for the Admiral. This difference will be their undoing.

Laura speaking to the people is the moment where Laura assumes the reigns once again.

Gaeta and Baltar had gone by the wayside, but there had been an affinity between the two, and they wanted to bring the relationship back. Baltar is willing to pick up the phone and try. The two men are going in opposite directions. Baltar is trying to crawl into the light, the best he and in his deeply flawed way, and Gaeta is going into the darkness

There is a missing element to this episode. ‘The Oath’ was shot before the webisodes so the relationship between Gaeta and Hoshi, which is romantic and probably sexual (Probably???), is not addressed. Had they known what they were going to do with the webisodes there would have been a stronger Hoshi element and more fallout. What side is Hoshi on? Ron liked the idea of the relationship and that Gaeta had that in his life. There is nothing to contradict what happened in the webisodes and Ron feels you can rationalize we just aren’t seeing those scenes between the two. (Uh Huh. I’ll refrain from a diatribe here.)

Ron loves Apollo and Starbuck’s reaction to the Adama/Roslin kiss. They are almost deliberately doing it in front of them. Lee and Kara look at each other like ‘Look at what Mom and Dad are doing' and 'I don’t know what to make of this’. They are making the relationship public and this is the way it’s going to be.

Will Gaeta give the order to shoot down the raptor or not? It’s one of the points of no return. He’s making a further commitment.

This week, Mo Ryan conducted an interview with Mark Verheiden regarding 'The Oath'. Mark touches upon some of the same things as Ron does in the podcast and affirms fan opinion. No spoilers beyond the episode.

And chalia43 has created an awesome Lee/Laura vidlet that can be found HERE. Oh, Lee! Oh, what could have been!
  • Current Mood: blah blah
I think I just vomited a little.

I had a similar reaction. I guess we were suppose to take that scene more seriously than we did? ::shudders::

You're welcome on both. :) And you vidded Lee/Laura, I'm physically incapable of not recing that!
The Gaeta/Hoshi thing kind of annoys me now - even though I loved that they did it at all. It looks like the other queer character (after Cain/Gina) is going to die as well. Good work Ron - after all these years, you finally do it (kind of in retrospect since the webisodes were shot after the series) and you do it for a character who it looks like will have a bad ending. Ugh.

Otherwise, at least he talks sense about the mutiny and character motivations. Let's see if they can pull off part two.
I think Ron fails to see he takes two steps forward and one step back. He's created some of the strongest female characters on TV, yet, with the exception of Laura, they are sexualized, victimized and/or killed. He acknowledges there are homosexuals in the fleet and they are completely accepted, but makes them the bad guys and has them killed. I don't read Cain or Gaeta as gay = evil because they are far too complex for that. But Ron does open himself up to criticism by not contemplating how certain plot developments could be perceived.
Gaeta as gay seems like an afterthought anyway, which frankly doesn't upset me because sometimes it's nice not to have the gay character defined by his sexuality. But to have the only two queer characters become "bad guys" is a bit upsetting - that said, I agree they are far too complex to really be considered one dimensionally evil in a way that reflects on their sexuality. Unfortunately in both case their sexuality was retconned in at the most inopportune times. I remember being spoiled for the Cain/Gina revelation before "Razor" and thinking "Is Ron really so oblivious that he can't see that retroactively making them both gay after they are both dead isn't it a bit ridiculous?"

I was excited for Gaeta's only-in-the-webisodes-unfortunately coming out. And now I almost wish it didn't happen. I'm a bit more aggrieved because I've always like Gaeta as a character, can absolutely see his point of view, but unfortunately his path will likely lead to him being dead - which I'll mourn for two reasons: great character gone off the rails late in the series and dead-gay-male.
I actually listened to the podcast on Friday - I thought "what the hell", given that I wasn't going to see the episode for 12 or so hours anyway. It's been a long time since I listened to a podcast, and I burst out laughing when Ron handwaved the fact that the Hoshi/Gaeta relationship doesn't exist in series canon because the webisodes happened afterwards. The fact that nothing appears to contradict it isn't justification, Ron.

I'm still finding it hilarious that Adama chose to defend an empty airlock. What were the marines going to do, given that the Raptor launched well before they started cutting into the hatch. Of course, that's probably something I'm meant to ignore, as it presents an excuse for Adama and Tigh to be captured while looking heroic, ready for the exposition episode next week.

Is it just me, or did Laura look faintly disappointed when Lee and Kara opened the hatch? ;)
I understand why Adama and Tigh didn't get on the raptor, especially Adama who would never abandon his ship or those still loyal to him, but why they didn't follow Lee and Kara to try and help regain control is beyond me. As I said to someone else in another post, my fear is Lee, Kara, and Laura are going to play very important roles in putting down the mutiny, taking back the ship, and saving the fleet, but Adama will get the credit for it all. :/

Is it just me, or did Laura look faintly disappointed when Lee and Kara opened the hatch?

Funny that you picked up on that and I didn't. ;)

which is romantic and probably sexual (Probably???),
Oh YUH. Because so many men smooch other men WITHOUT HAVING SEX WITH THEM. *combusts with fury*

Had they known what they were going to do with the webisodes there would have been a stronger Hoshi element and more fallout.
I am in love with this sentence. It could be applied to almost anything in the show: Had they known what they were going to do with XXX there would have been a stronger YYY element and more ZZZ. *stony face*
You picked up on the part of the podcast that made me want to smack Ron. ;)

Did you know that Narcho was to be Gaeta's boyfriend, but there was a scheduling conflict? If Narcho gets killed in the next ep, as I suspect he might, and Gaeta has no reaction that would have been a big WTF?
No, I didn't know it was going to be Narcho... And yeah, it was bad enough that there was no reaction to Hoshi in this last one. Yikes, people: planning! Have they learnt nothing?! Methinks they have become a little too confident in their retcon abilities...
Romantic and PROBABLY sexual? WTF? Ron's a guy- of COURSE it was fucking sexual. And not to put too fine a point on it, but when they're not working, what else is there to do on that ship??????

I won't bash him too hard for the missing-scenes Hoshi thing, because as long as the webisodes were written after the episodes were in the can, okay. But don't try to tell me it NEVER crossed his mind that Gaeta could be gay- not when the actor's been talking about it forever.

Thanks for the recap- I'm crazy busy and don't have time to listen to the podcasts this month, so it's nice to get a what was said.
but when they're not working, what else is there to do on that ship?

Heh. Good point.

I always suspected Gaeta was gay or at least bi. So, yeah, for Ron to act as if the webisodes were a revelation to him is ridiculous. I mean, Terry used to read the SciFi forum regularly. He HAD to know what we were thinking!
Heck with us- the actors were thinking it! James Callis recently did that interview where he said Alessandro Juliani was playing Gaeta as gay from like, the miniseries or first season because he felt it was inconsistent that someone as smart as Gaeta is meant to be hadn't cottoned on to the evidence in front of his face of what Baltar did, and his rationalization was that Gaeta was in love with Baltar. I can totally get them saying, "well, we never found time to address Gaeta's personal life specifically", because Gaeta is a minor character and there's a lot in this show. Or even "I know people thought he was gay, but we had other plans for him." But "We didn't think of it" is just DUMB.

That said, if Alessandro Juliani listened to that podcast, he must have been mildly frothing :) His character FINALLY gets a love interest and now Ron won't even admit they had sex???????

(It's like in the Harry Potter world, where JKR outed Dumbledore, then said his crush on Grindelwald never went anyplace and he remained celibate for the rest of his life. Gays are okay as long as they don't have sex with each other, apparently.)
It was clear how enamored Gaeta was with Baltar from the moment they met, which led me to believe he might be gay. And, I agree, his feelings clouded his view of what Baltar was really like so when New Caprica happened he was gutted at seeing what the man he cared about and trusted was really like. Considering how much input the actors have into the development of the show and their characters (in a recent interview, Ron revealed that during the table read it was James who suggested that Baltar try to talk to Gaeta), for Ron to claim it never occurred to him that Gaeta would like guys or to introduce that aspect of his character is ridiculous.

Gays are okay as long as they don't have sex with each other, apparently.

Isn't that the Catholic church's stance? ;p