Lee - Polite Face - lila-valerius

So Much for My Plan to Post More Frequently

Work was kicking my ass earlier in the week and the one night I got home before 5:30 I found it raining in my apartment. It seems the apartment complex doesn't believe in cleaning out the gutters and I have a gap in the window frame. Having survived the weeks traumas (Oh, yeah, the TV in my bedroom also went kablooey), I'm finally settled in front of the computer trying to catch up. I have a bunch of notes scribbled down on post its and scraps of paper and I'm trying to decode what the heck I was thinking at the time. I'm pretty sure one phrase has to do with a thought I had about Season 4 of BSG and Lee, but it doesn't make much sense without being able to recall what my point was. :/

Speaking of BSG, the Caprica/The Plan panel took place at Comic Con yesterday. There may have been rage as I read tweets from attendees at the panel pop up on my computer screen. The rage was not directed at Ron Moore or David Eick, but Edward James Olmos.

Truth is, I don't care for the man. I know the cast and crew heap endless praise upon him and I don't know him so I can't fairly judge whether or not he's a swell guy. But I do know from reading interviews and con reports and seeing him in person at a con, he will monopolize any discussion (Grace Park was a surprise guest at yesterday's panel and it seems she didn't get a word in). And he'll throw things out there as if it's gospel when it's simply his opinion and we're suppose to love him for it. At least he's making me feel better about skipping BSG panels at this years Dragon Con.

What specifically pissed me off this time? Someone asked whether The Plan would be the last Battlestar Galactica film. Ron and David were, rightfully, vague in answering since the possibility of another film hinges on a lot of issues. Such as The Plan's success and whether the network wants to invest in further projects, the availability of the producers, writers, and cast, and perhaps the biggest obstacle - the series finale. Ron Moore really didn't leave room to develop stories past the ending (Could you have Battlestar Galactica without the Galactica?) and my assumption is it was a deliberate choice.

But Eddie felt compelled to state he guarantees The Plan will not be the last movie because he's able to see into the future and tell us The Plan will be so successful it's going to "rock their (the network's) pants off". If the hyperbole weren't bad enough, he's written a script in which we'll get to see what happens after Adama's last scene in the finale. It seems Adama built that rustic log cabin, by himself, with no tools, and Tigh comes knocking on his door to tell him they have a problem. My first thought was, "This has to be a joke." But no one was reporting it as a joke and Mo Ryan, in her recap of the panel as well as Bear McCreary's concert, includes a brief video interview with Ron in which she follows up on Eddie's statements.

Now, while Ron states "never say never" for future BSG films, he makes it clear that Eddie's declaration is Eddie's hope for the future. That Ron discusses the problem of the sets having been destroyed (though there is digital footage of them all), seems to indicate that *if* they did another film it would not be set on earth. But then Eddie doesn't seem to be thinking about the potential for the franchise, but the potential for creating a showcase for himself. Forget that Adama seemingly cut himself off from the fleet when he presumed they no longer needed him and went off to live out his days in isolation or, in my hopeful view, die on a rock sitting next to his corpse bride. Forget that Tigh would be hard pressed to locate him without all that equipment they sent into the sun. Let's ask what possible crisis could there be that only the Great William Adama could solve? Do the other Cylon models find them and decide to finish the job they started four years earlier? Is Adama going to regroup the remnants of the military to gather sticks and rocks to fend off an attack?

At least Ron seems to see the crazy as well. Or, in a more diplomatic way, he says he doesn't know if he wants to tell that (Eddie's) story and feels there is something satisfying in just leaving them there...and allowing the fans to write various fictions. ;) Whether you loved the finale or hated it, I think we can agree it's up to Ron whether or not he wants to do anything more with BSG and that he has every right to want to move on to other projects.

What it boils down to I feel, is it's Eddie who doesn't want to leave the BSG universe behind. While he's been a respected actor for many years, he has never been the focus of the kind of attention he's received by being part of this one series. And I've noticed that while other cast members have done a con or two since the series ended, he seems to be appearing at a lot. He's enjoying the platform he's been given and fan adoration and he seems unwilling to walk away from it. Most of the other actors have gone on to new projects and, as much as they loved their time working on Battlestar Galactica, have not expressed any desire to return to their characters. Jamie has gone so far as to say he's done playing Lee Adama. So if SyFy, in another boneheaded move, wants to bank roll the wacky adventures of Bill Adama and Saul Tigh, I won't be watching. Not even to mock.

Torchwood: Children of Earth has now concluded it's run in the U.S. And since I began this post, there has been an announcement by BBC American that the BBC has, unsurprisingly, picked up the show for a fourth series. I shared my gut-reaction to the final two parts here, but have been thinking about the mini series a bit more since then. I have not done a 180 in my opinion, though I think if I watched it in it's entirety again, after having read the reactions of people whose analysis I respect, I might see things a bit differently. However, something occurred to me that strengthens my feelings regarding one problem I had.

I've seen the arguments that, with the stakes being so high for the planet, it wouldn't have made sense for the Torchwood members to come out of the crisis unscathed and the team intact. Jack is immortal and Gwen is our POV character within the series, which leaves Ianto the one to be sacrificed. I'm not sure I entirely agree with the argument that someone needed to die, but I might have been more accepting of it had Ianto not died in such a pointless manner.

But as I was watching BBC America's "Inside the Hub" special (more entertaining than the actual series at times) as well as a couple of the declassifieds that were aired the new something began to bother me. A lot of time was spent on Ianto's backstory in CoE. Not only did we meet his family, physical abuse by his deceased father was alluded to. Why? Why drop hints to a painful childhood which, until now, had had an unknown effect on Ianto that we'll never get answers to? This is even more problematic to me than the time spent debating whether or not Ianto and Jack were a couple. And after watching the recap special with highlights of the Jack/Gwen relationship and the attraction/feelings alluded to between the two, I'm left to wonder if Jack did love Ianto or if he was just a guy he liked and cared about and could pass the time with because Gwen was with Rhys?

So, yes, Children of Earth was the best written Torchwood series and did dare to go places that at least U.S. network TV would dare not go, but I'm still finding the character developments troublesome.

And while I totally believe showrunners have the right to do whatever they wish to do with their creations, I also feel it was unnecessary for Russell Davies to throw gasoline on the fire in reaction to fan reaction to the current series. By the way, Russell, it was more than a few fans.

As I may have mentioned in the past, to distract me from work at work I listen to shows on Hulu. I was ridiculously excited when Stargate: SG1 was added to the site. I only watched random episodes from the first three seasons because those seasons were...not great. Season 4 is when, if you are going to get hooked, you get hooked and are able to watch the entire season without skipping over any episodes. But as work my way through season 5 I'm wondering if something happened during the hiatus between seasons? The season premiere, 'Enemies', suffers from plot overload. (There's everything but a gold platted Goa'uld kitchen sink thrown in.) No one apparently viewed Orlin as a creepy stalker in 'Ascension'. And while I'm use to the show not dealing with the consequences of SG1's actions, there is some really dodgy morality going on and Jack, who is Colonel Sarcasm, crosses over into asshole territory on numerous occasions. I've never considered myself *in* the SG1 fandom so I'd love to know now if there was some behind the scenes drama that resulted in a wonky start to Season 5.
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But Eddie felt compelled to state he guarantees The Plan will not be the last movie because he's able to see into the future and tell us The Plan will be so successful it's going to "rock their (the network's) pants off". If the hyperbole weren't bad enough, he's written a script in which we'll get to see what happens after Adama's last scene in the finale. It seems Adama built that rustic log cabin, by himself, with no tools, and Tigh comes knocking on his door to tell him they have a problem.

Oh, man, where to start. In a way, EJO's attitude encapsulates so much that was wrong with the show at the end: Adama was supposed to be a heroic figure in the script, but really, he was a creepy old dude. They had no way of knowing, when they attached his name to the show, that they were not only getting the pulicity but also the crazy. There are a few BSG panelists I'd like to hear from at Dragon*Con (mostly Kandyse McClure), but I agree that with EJO on the stage, that's not going to happen.

After our conversation last night, I looked at the episode titles for the rest of SG-1 Season 5, and I do think it has some solid parts. But man, that first run of episodes is terrible! (I exempt "Red Sky," since I like the science, and the Angry!Jack).
The Trek Trak has a rough schedule posted to their site and I noticed right away that they are splitting up the Trek actors. Nimoy is doing a solo panel and Mulgrew and Stewart are doing a joint one. I'm really hoping the American SciFi people have this same idea. Though, they'd likely pair Mary and Eddie together instead of having Eddie solo and put the rest of the cast on a panel. There are just so many BSG actors this year, even if Eddie weren't there, I just don't know how all of them will get time to speak.

I'm just past the midway point of Season 5 now and, yes, there are some good episodes. 2001 leaps to mind. And, unless my memory is playing tricks on me, I really enjoyed the episode where Daniel dies. OK, that sounds bad, but you know what I mean!
ever since i've heard of the whole "we'll me making more movies" i've felt it was a bad idea, so, nope, i definitely agree with you there. i actually thought he was joking when he said that, but frankly i didn't find that funny. not even as a joke.

as far as i'm concerned, bill adama died. mauled by a lion, maybe, or of starvation, or simply of a broken heart. don't care, i just know he's deader than dead. and while ron might try and be polite, i really don't think he'll cave in and ruin the franchise by having another movie.

while i'm looking forward to the plan, in many ways i can't help wondering if THAT isn't a bit pushing it as well.
My first instinct was it was a joke. IT HAD TO BE. But then Ron seems to confirm he wasn't joking. Maybe there isn't a full script, but he pitched the idea? I just don't know. I do like your mauled by a lion theory. :)

Ron does have Caprica, but I don't feel he has any deep desire to continue telling the story of Battlestar Galactica. He's satisfied with the story he told of *those* characters and doesn't seem to think there is any more to reveal about them. And that he encouraged fan fiction (which I appreciate :) to continue on is pretty much telling us that if we can come up with stories, great, but he's tapped out.

I don't have a problem with The Plan because I am intrigued to see the story told from another perspective and I am soooo looking forward to finding out what the frak happened to Shelley Godfrey! :)
EJO. More films. I...what? I.

I don't even know where to start with what's wrong with that.

My immediate emotional reaction is to start screaming, "WHEN A BUG DOESN'T LIKE YOU, THAT'S RACISM! THE UN, PEOPLE, THE U. N."

I just...seriously, what?

I'm glad that for once at least RDM publically disagreed with him, and the fact he's written this whole SCRIPT already? Oh, man. :/

What would that story be about anyway? Their struggles with...hunting?

I have to say, if it was a series that actually focused on the integration of the human/cylon populations, the struggles of living where they are, perhaps a nice retcon that they only threw the ships into, etc. I mean essentially I'm saying what I've always believed - it's usually possible to fix "fail" (or, you know, my perception of fail) with MORE STUFF to recontextualise it. But since no one involved thought any of the things I thought failed did, in fact, fail, I imagine it would instead just be the GLORIOUS ADVENTURES OF ADAMA AND TIGH being jerks and having everyone love them for it anyway.

And just. I would watch to mock but a) I don't think my blood pressure could take it and b) I wouldn't want to dignify that kind of crap with my time or money.

I wouldn't be averse to more movies pre-finale BUT, I don't see where they could fit them in? They already did the story of the Pegasus, and now they're doing the Cylon POV. The extended cut of UB also pretty much functions as a missing year telemovie. The rest of the storyline is so tightly interconnected I don't really thing there's space for another story, you know?

I'm with RDM. Let this one lie.

*still in shock*

As to Torchwood, I'm left wondering what they're going to do with it. I know they can bring Jack back but really, that seems such a waste and oddly...retconny based on what he did. So we've only got Gwen? I'm a little worried by your statements about the Jack/Gwen relationship. There were one or two hints of it in S1 and then a very, very weird moment at the start of S2 when he finds out she's engaged and was acting like they'd almost been a couple or something before, but seriously? Jack/Gwen? I could see it if they'd been headed there from the start but now? Oy.

And yes, I think I would have been far more okay with the decision to kill Ianto (which like, I don't particularly care about from a personal perspective) if a) it hadn't been because of such an INSANELY STUPID PLAN as to run in and shoot a tank with handguns after demanding something with no leverage to enforce it from a vastly superior force and b) hadn't come so close on the heels of the deaths of Tosh and Owen that it just felt like fourth-wall breaking overkill and had the unfortunate effect of suddenly making it impossible for me to understand why Gwen kept her job. Even though, having seen all she's seen I don't think she could be happy with a "normal life".


I hope that they start with an entirely new cast and someone else in charge. It could be the adventures of Lois Habiba!
I have to say, if it was a series that actually focused on the integration of the human/cylon populations, the struggles of living where they are, perhaps a nice retcon that they only threw the ships into, etc.

That's the one thing that might make it somewhat okay; they'd pretty much have to retcon the technology issues to make the it workable at all. And maybe they'd show a Hybrid baby or two running around. They've never been much for consistency! I really want this script to leak.
he's written a script in which we'll get to see what happens after Adama's last scene in the finale. It seems Adama built that rustic log cabin, by himself, with no tools, and Tigh comes knocking on his door to tell him they have a problem.

Oh. My. God.

You know, that sort of thing really does start bordering on Mary Sue fanfic territory.

I agree with danceswithwords that a good bit of the problem at the end seemed to be wrapped up in the problem that EJO quite earnestly believed that Adama was the hero, when in fact he was utterly pathetic. Back when I still believed that we were all supposed to see him as pathetic, I was pretty amenable to his characterization--I didn't like him, per se, but I liked the idea of the "hero" actually being a pathetic, ineffectual, romantic old man. But once it was perfectly clear that "hero" wasn't supposed to be in scare quotes, it was all downhill.

You really don't like seasons 1-3 of SG-1 that much?!? I agree that season 4 is easily the best of the series, but I think 2 and 3 are nearly as solid. Then it goes downhill with season 5 (which ironically enough was when I started watching), improves a bit in season 6, declines again in 7, bottoms out in 8, improves, albeit slowly, in 9, and is finally utterly delightful again in 10. But I'd call 2-4 the must-watch seasons, I think.
Eddie sees Adama as nothing which is very different than every other actor on the show who saw their character (or characters if they played a Cylon) in shades of gray. They all made errors in judgment along the way, realized they made errors, and it added to the complexity of the characters. And Season 4 provided many opportunities for Adama to confront the mistakes he made, but, no, he just kept leading the charge in a losing battle. I'm not absolving Ron of blame in Adama's depiction nor his seeming inability to tell Eddie to tone it down a few notches, but I do know the other actors often questioned some of the writing for their characters and were listened to so Eddie apparently just wanted to, ultimately, be seen as the Big Damn Hero while most of us saw him very differently.

My history with SG1 is this: I started watching in Season 9 when Ben joined the cast. Around that time, danceswithwords decided to watch the series from the beginning and I read her recaps to, hopefully, make some sense of the show by becoming familiar with the history. When the then SciFi began the cycle of repeats over from the beginning I decided to watch for myself. Through seasons 1 and 2, I mostly had the show on as background noise. In season 3 I began payin some attention. And by season 4 I was actually paying full attention to the episodes. And I have rewtached episodes from the first three seasons, but I'm pretty selective because I still find those seasons very rocky.

I'm actually a fan of Season 6, AKA the Season of Nemic. ;) Season 7 I can't recall too many specifics of, but Season 8 I have to agree with everyone who says RDA was phoning it in. Season 9 was 'meh' and largely saved by Vala's humorous attempts to fit in Cameron's sense of wonder and eagerness to rebuild SG1. I was never a fan of the Ori as a villain. But the group really started clicking as a group in season 10 and I wouldn't have minded seeing them interact for another season.

...I'm sorry, apparently I wasn't done despairing of this yet.
I was just making a mental list of my Unpopular Opinions and not caring for EJO was right at the top. People complain about some of the other actors, but he's the only one who's ever yanked me out of a scene with his overacting. Though, the scripts he got didn't exactly call for subtlety, so I'm probably being unfair. ;)

Yeah, it makes me sad to see people getting excited about this "guarantee" of future films when... it's EJO, guys. Though now I desperately want that script to leak somehow. Can you imagine the hilarity? Mary Sue fanfic is right. :D
OMG, I LOVE your icon!

EJO is at the top of my list too. Second would probably be "LEE ADAMA IS AWESOME PEOPLE!" ;p

I'd also agree that Eddie is probably the only actor to take me out of a scene or, more precisely, make me tune out of a scene. Granted, the scripts were becoming less subtle as the series progressed, but the other actors seemed to deal better. Of course, I've also long suspected that the other actors take direction whereas Eddie did whatever he damn well pleased and no one had the balls to tell him when he was chewing scenery for fear he'd walk off set and never come back.
What would that story be about anyway? Their struggles with...hunting?

More like their struggles with withdrawal due to a lack of alcohol. :p

Or, how they figure out how to build a still.

Eddie, it's time to let go.

Or, how they figure out how to build a still.

It would explain what they did with the raptor!
A movie... about Adama and Tigh's wacky adventures in the prehistoric wilderness? Erm... ok. What is there left for those two to do? Weave carpets out of grass for Adama to chew on? Work out how to make alcohol out of cacti and bison droppings? Even if I wasn't done with BSG, I'd think this was a pretty ridiculous idea.

Of course, if we could have a movie all about Apollo, Lord of the Jungle, I could be tempted to watch...
Wow- this is baffling. I thought that when they auctioned off anything related to the Galactica, Galactica was DONE. And although I didn't love the finale (I didn't hate it, either), I DID feel satisfied that the story was over.

Plus, I must agree that Adama died pathetic, broken, and not the character I loved for three and a half seasons.

You hung in with Adama longer than I. I gave up after Season 3. ;)

There was no doubt in my mind that Adama died. Whether it was by his won hand, which is how I thought he would go, or was a victim of an animal attack or starvation, doesn't really matter. The point is, there is NO WAY a man at his age and in his shape could build a log cabin by himself without tools. Puh-leez. It scares me a little what the finale would have been like in Eddie's hands!

Good point about the the props being sold off. Maybe he was planning on asking the cast to bring whatever they took from the set with them. ;p
A 4th season of Torchwood? What is it going to be? Gwen and Rhys sitting in front of the tv and eating their dinner. Until the last episode when it explodes and KILLS THEM. Then we cut to a shot of Jack crying and holding a brand new TV which he was too late to bring to them.
Hee. Then we flash-forward 20 years or so iand find out that Jack raised Gwen Jr or Rhys Jr, the child followed in his parents footsteps, joined Torchwood 3.0...and Jack got he/she killed as well.
Oh Eddie, are you kidding me?!

No, I would definitely NOT watch a BSG spin off featuring Adama and Tigh. And I agree with you there shouldn't be Battlestar Galactica without Galactica. It's just not right.

By the way, I've had the impression Adama died flying his viper into the sun along with Galactica and rest of the ships. *iz confuzed*
The last we saw of Adama he was sitting on a rock next to Laura's grave talking about building a cabin. I did see people theorize that he eventually got into the raptor and flew off into space or the sun. My take is he destroyed the raptor and then killed himself. Or it might be wishful thinking on my part.
Oh, EJO, I never expected I could count on him to bring the LOLZ. I have nothing to add to what's already been said. I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

I enjoyed your fanfic snippet down in the comments, too.

Thanks. :) Adama brings out the best or worst in me depending on how you want to look at it. ;)
It's never too late to join this party! I'm outraged that Mary was never nominated for an Emmy. Tricia and Michael H did some amazing work as well. But while I would never say Eddie was bad in the role (at least in the first three seasons), I never felt he did anything exceptional.

It's been stated by Ron and Eddie that Eddie is, in fact, responsible for some of the more (most?) ridiculous scenes. He was the one that chose to include the vulgar comments about Ellen in his fight with Tigh. And in the scene where he broke down in the bathroom and Lee had to come in and comfort him, there was vomiting that, mercifully, was edited from the cut we saw. If I thought about it, I could probably come up with other examples. Maybe the writing lacked the subtlety of previous seasons in season 4, but whereas the rest of the cast chose to take an understated approach to the material they were given, Eddie chose to ratchet up the melodramatics.

While not dead, where does Ellen fit into this story? Does she once again take a backseat to the Great Bill Adama? Is she left to help Baltar and Caprica plow fields? While Caprica laughs her ass off?
I have to go sleepty time now but I will chime in tomorrow.

I wanted to show you this.


Normally I would never link to an article by that special gentleman but Eddie seems to have topped him way out here and the article cracked me up.

As did contacting the UN "via email".