Asta 2

It's been awhile since I've done this

Analysis. I also haven't read anyone else's thoughts on Angel yet so I'm sure I'm being redundant. I'm also sure I'll be beating myself up over stuff I missed mentioning.


In keeping with the machine gun fire, I present you with bullet points galore.....

* The intro with Harm explaining why people weren't there was a nice way of recapping without going back to the 'previously on...' bit.

* Spike with a briefcase! To carry his beer!

* "Why am I always reconnaissance?"

* It's too late, but it really hit me with this episode that David should be doing more comedy (his look off of 'Angel's Avengers' was priceless) and James more drama on the show. I'm tired of Angel's brooding and Spike's stupid one liners. That's one reason I'm glad the show is ending. Yet.....

* The possibilities with Wes and Illyria, the introduction of Marcus Hamilton, and this apocalypse supposedly being THE APOCALYPSE have me curious as to what season six would have been about. At the same time, I think they missed the boat by wasting time at the with so-so stand alone eps when they could have introduced much of this sooner and focused more on what now seems to be an intriguing story arc.

* I'm wondering when the decision was to change the opening credits. Was it before or after they cancellation was announced? It seems odd that they bumped Mercedes to starring status. And they changed the focus from Fred to Illyria for AA.

* So, while it was great to see Lorne make an actual contribution to the ep...."the girl I loved was gonna die". Heh? I'm sorry, but are we supposed to believe every guy on the show was in love with her? I never had anything against Fred, but she ain't that interesting either.

* Was it just me or did Alexis look especially hot in this ep? I only wish the Wes/Illyria scenes interested me. Too much exposition and no connection to the other story.

* A dimension with nothing but shrimp! Hee Hee.

* Shirtless Lindsey! Shirtless Spike! No Shirtless Angel!!!

* So, Hell is an upper middle class suburban community....with Lindsey.....can I be in Hell too? Please.
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* It was nice seeing Angel and Spike walking in sunlight

* Maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but seeing that kid trying to mow down everyone with a machine gun was too disturbing. (yeah, I know he wasn't a real kid, still...)

* Best Line: "Damn. He is well dressed". :)

* Whip me with your words if you must, but Lindsey and Eve on the couch....awwwwwww.

* I really don't have much to say about Gunn other than I felt horrible that he had to be left behind. The question now is how long is he stuck there atoning for his sins? And if Illyria can jump dimensions will she be the one to rescue him?


And now for some more in depth thoughts and speculation....

Fred: "This is only the first layer. Don't you want to see how deep I go?"

Actually, I don't think we have to go that deep to figure this out. Fred is still in there, somewhere, and I don't think it's just wishful thinking on Wes' part (are dreams ever not prophetic in the Whedonverse?). I'm not sure that means Fred as we knew her will ever be back - especially with only five more episodes left - but I don't think a hybrid is of Fred/Illyria is out of the question.

OK, Lindsey *really* doesn't like Angel and his actions were motivated by hatred and revenge. But, it seems that he was equally motivated by taking down the Senior Partners and all that they stood for. Hmmm, seems someone speculated that Lindsey may not be evil. That maybe he was fighting the good fight in his own slightly psychotic way. Oh, that would be me! :)

I shall admit I didn't ponder the possibility that the Partners didn't want Lindsey and Angel to talk, hence them putting him in the 'penalty box'. And if it was Lindsey's idea to bring Spike into the mix, why is Marcus welcoming Spike to the team? Is he just playing mind games with him? Or are the Partners able to manipulate everyone, or at least their actions, to their advantage?

Can I say that one of the things I have loved about this season is watching people Angel loathes telling him off, making him see the truth - first Spike and now Lindsey. The latter is especially appropriate considering he warned him three years ago not to play the Senior Partners game and Angel did just that.

The groundwork that has been laid all season - Angel being sucked into and distracted by corporate bureaucracy to the point of forgoing the role of hero - has come to a head. Angel's intent may have been to change the system from within. But, in concentrating all his efforts into doing so, he's lost sight of his true intent, and has become just another victim of the world's apathy. How chilling as it when Lorne began by saying (in reference to Gunn's absence) "We never leave a.....I guess that's what we do now." Yep, heros just don't do that.

Maybe Angel shouldn't have blown off Holland Manners 'Hell on Earth' speech so swiftly. Lindsey makes the point that the apocalypse has "been here all along, underneath". If Hell is on Earth, it's something that we, humans, have created from within, drawing on our worst attributes - the darkness and evil that lies just 'underneath' the surface. Vampires and demons are easy to spot. Their nature revealing itself on their visage. You don't have that luxury with humans. And while Angel and Co. have largely been fighting his kind, protecting us from them, we may find out we are the Big Bads.
  • Current Mood: curious curious
Or are the Partners able to manipulate everyone, or at least their actions, to their advantage?

I was thinking about Jayne Marcus' words as well. He also sounded like he knew exactly how they escaped from "Hell", so I wonder how much of that was also in the senior partners' plan...?

Best Line: "Damn. He is well dressed". :)
Hee, oh yeah. *g*
He also sounded like he knew exactly how they escaped from "Hell", so I wonder how much of that was also in the senior partners' plan...?

Good point. What if they wanted Lindsey to escape? What if they did something to my poor tiny Texan's mind to make him go all evil?! :(

Or, what if they knew Gunn would swap places with Lindsey and he's who they really wanted to gain more info on Angel and Co? Too many possibilities!!!
The possibilities with Wes and Illyria, the introduction of Marcus Hamilton, and this apocalypse supposedly being THE APOCALYPSE have me curious as to what season six would have been about. At the same time, I think they missed the boat by wasting time at the with so-so stand alone eps when they could have introduced much of this sooner and focused more on what now seems to be an intriguing story arc.

This has been my main bone of contention. How ironic that Joss pretty much capitulates to the network and offers more stand alones to save the show and it gets cancelled anyway. I wish he had stuck to his guns more and had done it his way. I also wish that he could have done his 10 episode Spike arc too (another concession to the network) - it made more sense, as it was pretty obvious that Spike was not essential in quite a few episodes, and that it would have been better to make his story more concise.

Also - can I live in Lindsey hell with you? :)
I also wish that he could have done his 10 episode Spike arc too (another concession to the network) - it made more sense, as it was pretty obvious that Spike was not essential in quite a few episodes, and that it would have been better to make his story more concise.

You know I totally concur with you on this point. ;) Even in 'Underneath', was Spike necessary? No. Gunn was needed to break Lindsey out of the Special Hell, but not Spike.

Also - can I live in Lindsey hell with you? :)

Sure! He may be tiny, but I think there is enough of him to go around. :)
You know I totally concur with you on this point. ;) Even in 'Underneath', was Spike necessary? No. Gunn was needed to break Lindsey out of the Special Hell, but not Spike.

Great minds think alike :) Spike was not necessary in 'Underneath' - Lorne could have easily taken his place in the story, and it would have made more sense. Other than Fred (and I think it was a bit contrived), Spike hasn't really shown any personal interest in or concern for any of Angel's friends, so it makes his presence feel out of place. His story is tied to Angel, and a shorter arc would have shown that to more advantage.

Sure! He may be tiny, but I think there is enough of him to go around. :)

Yay!!!! ::claps hands in glee::


The possibilities with Wes and Illyria, the introduction of Marcus Hamilton, and this apocalypse supposedly being THE APOCALYPSE have me curious as to what season six would have been about.

Yeah, me too. I am resigned to the ending of AtS, but when I see everything they planted, but won’t play out in the five episodes left, I awfully want to know what should be happening next season.

"the girl I loved was gonna die"

Well, I don’t think Lorne was anywhere near in love with Fred. It did sound over-the-top melodramatic, but it is just Lorne’s way of saying, I guess.

Too much exposition and no connection to the other story.

I actually liked Wes/Illyria scenes – they were dark, and claustrophobic, and repetitive, and it felt right for me. And Fred is there, but though I like her, I don’t really want the return of the same Fred as she was in THitW and before. Now, Illyria is changing because of Fred, or Fred returns with parts of Illyria here – that is interesting. Once again, what was planned for AA to play in season 6?

Or are the Partners able to manipulate everyone, or at least their actions, to their advantage?

I guess, that is exactly what they do.
Now, Illyria is changing because of Fred, or Fred returns with parts of Illyria here – that is interesting.

I agree we will see some form of hybrid of the two. Unless Joss cops out and goes with a 'happy' ending and gets Fred back. God I hope not.

It is interesting to ponder who is influencing who. With Illyria conceding to being part of humanity, I'm guessing Fred is doing the influencing at this point.
Unless Joss cops out and goes with a 'happy' ending and gets Fred back.

I found myself wondering if Fred was somehow going to be the Shanshu. Of course, she's not a vamp, but they could work their way around that. More to the point, I have a perfect 0000 batting average on Season ending predictions.
"Whip me with your words if you must, but Lindsey and Eve on the couch....awwwwwww."

I'm not sure Eve/Lindsey is going to go anywhere. Maybe she fell in love, but I think he was using her to get information about W&H, and she's starting to figure it out.
Oh, I agree, Lindsey does not seem in love with Eve. I think the feelings are one sided and she was useful to his plan. But, I also thought they looked darn cute cuddling on the couch together. Maybe it's because we have never seen that part of Lindsey before. Or maybe it was because I was imagining I was Eve. ;)
David should be doing more comedy

When we re-watched "Shells" before this ep, I actually made that same comment. DB really has a wonderful way with the comedy, especially with the deadpan.

And if it was Lindsey's idea to bring Spike into the mix, why is Marcus welcoming Spike to the team?

My take on this is that Lindsay brought Spike back and was trying to nurture him to be outside the W&H milieu via the whole "Doyle" charade, but then that all backfired, Spike got all intertwined with Angel's Avengers, and hey presto W&H now has their hooks into both vampires with souls.
My take on this is that Lindsay brought Spike back and was trying to nurture him to be outside the W&H milieu via the whole "Doyle" charade, but then that all backfired, Spike got all intertwined with Angel's Avengers, and hey presto W&H now has their hooks into both vampires with souls.

Way to be optimistic! :p Ironically it's W&H's former golden boy Lindsey who has not managed to succomb in any way to W&H's manipulations.
And if Illyria can jump dimensions will she be the one to rescue him?
What neat notion!

And yeah.. humanity as the big bads. I like that! And yeah - heroes don't do that. But they're not heroes any more, are they?

And yeah - Lindsey's not a bad guy. You're so right there.
Better late than never I always say. :)

but I'm sorry Wes/Ilyria have me wondering about the paperclip supply at W&H.

I enjoyed their dynamic in 'Shells', but in this ep all I seemed to hear was blah, blah, blah. I really didn't need three long, unecessary scenes to tell me they're unhappy. Duh! Someone should have reminded the writers that dialogue is used to advance plot and characterization - not have me reaching for me remote to fast forward.

One of the best things about Marcus was that, after being set up for him to be a Terminator type, he wields---a pen.

That was a very cool reveal. I also liked the fact that we discovered Eve's 'Please don't let him kill me' was her way of trying to retain her immortality. She was never in immediate danger.

I just quietly superimposed the heads of my nearest and dearest over Eve's.

Awwww, thanks. I think Lindsey and I do make a cute couple. ;)

I foolishly thought that those conversations might go somewhere and he'd be rescued by the end of the ep.

Nah. I thought he'd be in the penalty box for awhile. It's one of Joss' rules that every character has to suffer horribly at some point to learn the error of their ways. Pancake kisses aside, Gunn's time has come.

I do agree with you though that he is a good man who made a horrible mistake. It's called being human. That's part of the reason I feel the Shanshu is no big deal. Angel and Spike are as close to human as any of us already.