Asta 2

All Good Things.....

Damn, that was impressive.

I'll definitely need to watch it again...and again...to fully process what I saw. But, my immediate reaction was just "wow". More shockingly, nothing pissed me off. Not even the murder of my beloved tiny Texan.

Yeah, I'm bummed about his death, mostly because I believed him. Lindsey may be selfish, self-serving, and manipulative but I never felt that he was evil in the strictest sense. We've seen him have the capacity for good in the past. And let me throw this out there, if we assume the worst - that someone is incapable of change - well then, Buffy should have driven a stake through Spike's heart in season 4. Did Angel have the right to determine that Lindsey could not be 'saved'? Then again there was Lorne's telling "I've heard you sing". Did he see three years ago that Lindsey was incapable of being redeemed?

Still, I console myself with a damn fine death scene. It wasn't that Lindsey couldn't face death, heel, he seemed to expect it's just that it was supposed to be Angel - "Angel kills me". BTW, Christian mentioned at the Con that during his first two years on the show Joss was always trying to kill him...Joss finally succeeded.

"Would you like me to lie to you now?" Wes' death should have been a punch to the gut, yet I was, dare I say, happy for the guy. At long last he found peace and if we believe in that heavenly plane Buffy was once on then Wes at long last will be together with Fred. God, I'm tearing again just thinking about that scene. AA and AD gave us some of there best work ever.

Did Angel really sign away the Shanshu? First off, I don't really care - I never felt that was Angel's ultimate goal nor that of the show. Besides, there always seems to be a loophole in these prophecies. He signed his name Angel. Is that who he is or is it Angelus or Liam? As for humanity, I think they've proved it's overrated.

For someone (that would be me) who only tuned into Angel this season because of Spike, his story was of the least interest to me. In the end it needed to be about Gunn and Wes and Angel. Some of Angel's final and best scenes would be with Lindsey. They started this show together - it was fitting they should end it together. And I have to say they gave us one of the funniest exchanges I've ever heard on this show:

"I want you Lindsey. (pause) Thinking about rephrasing that."
"Yeah, I think I'd be more comfortable if you did."

Really, considering the close friendship between CK and DB I have to wonder how many takes it took before they could get through that. I know I practically fell off the couch laughing.

Other inspired, exhilarating, and heartbreaking moments:

I felt Angel had closure with Conner before, but this was the perfect denouement. They had a true father/son moment - what Angel always longed for. Could offering to help your kid with his homework be any more normal? And after trying to kill Angel for so long, Conner risks his own life to aid him.

"I was at the taping of the first Carol Burnett Show. Tim Conway was on fire."

Not just having Spike recite poetry but the same poem that brought about his great humiliation and led him to be turned. Only this time, his audience loves it. 'That was for Cecily. The next one is called the wanton folly of my mum' - God I love any Buffy reference. :)

Gunn returning to his old neighborhood to catch up with Anne! Gee, so that's what being unspoiled feels like. ;)

I loved in Wes' discussion with Illyria he casually mentioned his Watcher training. On the downside, it made me recall they never did address where those robots came from.

I actually felt sorry for Eve (who I'm guessing didn't mention her tryst with Angel). Lindsey really did care for her. She gave up immortality for him and now is left alone seemingly with nothing.

"It isn't my kind of work anymore, it's unsavory." Lorne has largely been wasted this season on the show, but it was a powerful final moment for him and us. The carefree, fun loving Host turned into an assassin.

I'm curious as to what a Season 6 would have been about. Is it a coincidence that Angel made their rendezvous point just north of the Hyperion? I sincerely doubt Wes would have died. I'll hazard to guess that's one of the 'small' adjustments Joss made to the script. And what of Harmony? She was to be made a series regular next season, was Angel going to forgive her betrayal? If I had to pick out a weakness in this episode it was the Harmony stuff. Yeah, I understand they needed her to be the dupe, but in such a tightly written episode it just seemed predictable and far too convenient.

Out of all the finales I've seen this would have to rate as one of the best. I'm sure many will disagree but I'd rather have Angel go out like this rather than *hope* it would go out like this next season. For the record, the 'cliffhanger' didn't bother me in the least. Evil can't be defeated, the fight just keeps on going. And, in my opinion, they win this fight. :)

In related news, this pre-empted my completing my Con report. This weekend I'll post it - I swear!

And I had what I thought was an interesting fanfic idea...which Joss has now screwed up. Oh well, I could always go AU.
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I loved it too, Asta. And those are words I never thought I'd be saying right now. I laughed. I cried. And I loved the ending. Sigh.
I'm glad you're not that upset about Lindsey - I almost slipped so many times last week :)

It was better than the spoilers read, which I kind of expected. The actors always give more than you see on the page, especially Alexis, David and Christian. Andy was very good, and I'm glad he was given something with some meat to it. I even liked Connor! :)

I do agree that Spike's story ultimately was the least interesting, because it didn't resonate with the others, who had been together from the beginning. I loved seeing Anne - who said Buffy never positively impacted anyone's life? And I loved that Gunn chose to spend his time back where he began.

Wes' end was bittersweet - I hope he and Fred are together.
I'm glad you're not that upset about Lindsey - I almost slipped so many times last week :)

I actually had a bad feeling that Lindsey was not going to survive the finale. Of course, he's really only pretending to be dead. As soon as Lorne left the room, he jumped up and took off the vest containing the blood packets. That's the fanwank I'm sticking with. :p
You know I understand why Wesley had to die and I'm happy that he finally found the peace that he never really had in his life--and I also have to believe that he is on the same plane of Heaven Buffy was on and is happily together with Fred. But that doesn't mean that I have to like it.

In truth I think that's what hurt me the most about the finale. Having to watch Wesley die. Someone on my friends list said that he didn't die a hero. They said that he was a far too broken and betrayed by himself man to ever be a hero...but I have to disagree.

To me when I look at Wesley...he sort of reminds me of Doyle. I know that he didn't compromise and he gave his last breath, even if he did accept a lie in his final moments which was one of the most breathtakingly beautiful scenes I've ever seen, so Angel could keep fighting. I think he knew when he looked back at Angel that he wasn't going to make it and he was okay with it. And to me that warrants him as a hero.

He'll always be in my heart.

As for the rest of what you had to say, minus the Lindsey stuff (sorry I just differ a little bit there) I would have to agree with you.
Someone on my friends list said that he didn't die a hero. They said that he was a far too broken and betrayed by himself man to ever be a hero...but I have to disagree.

Without a doubt in my mind, Wes died a hero. Yes he was broken, but with everything and everyone he ever really cared about stripped away from him, instead of giving up - let the dark forces run rampant - he chose to keep fightening. He and the others chose to face death, not even to save the world, just help it to keep going. Heck, if past actions kept one from being a hero on Joss' shows, they'd have no heros!
And, in my opinion, they win this fight. :)

They totally win. This is their kind of fight - against all odds. How can they not to win it - if they only keep fighting?
Ahh, now I'm getting all emotional again reading your take on it. :) By the way, it's funny; when Lindsay died I thought of you and how you'd probably be pissed off. ;) Guess I was wrong! I was a little pissed off though, I also thought he maybe deserved a chance at redemption.

Can't wait to read your con report!!! And pics! I still need to get my Cleveland con pics developed, sigh....btw, Vulkon Tampa now has a Kane concert too! If only they could get Christian for Oakland...
By the way, it's funny; when Lindsay died I thought of you and how you'd probably be pissed off. ;) Guess I was wrong! I was a little pissed off though, I also thought he maybe deserved a chance at redemption.

I'm shocked I wasn't pissed off. Maybe because so many of Joss characters have come back from the dead I can tell myself it's not the end of his journey. IMHO, Lindsey was capable of redemption. And damn if I didn't believe him when he referred to himself as a member of the team. :(
Gee, so that's what being unspoiled feels like. ;)

Squeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

And did you see Enterprise? I'm so totally back on board.
Wes' death should have been a punch to the gut, yet I was, dare I say, happy for the guy.

ITA, here's hoping that he will indeed be united with Fred in some other plane. ::sniff:: I do wonder what would happen if there had been a S6 too, maybe Wes would have arrived in time to open a portal or something...

The carefree, fun loving Host turned into an assassin.
Lorne broke my heart in this episode. Never was much of a fan of his, but to watch him break like this is just so so sad. Sigh.
I do wonder what would happen if there had been a S6 too, maybe Wes would have arrived in time to open a portal or something...

I've heard rumblings that spoilers for the show changed some weeks ago. I'm now wondering what those changes were and if they involved Wes' fate. I guess it's safe to find out now. :)

Lorne broke my heart in this episode. Never was much of a fan of his, but to watch him break like this is just so so sad. Sigh.

I've felt Lorne has been wasted all season. It was a huge mistake to make him a series regular imho. But, damn if Joss didn't salvage his storyline and give him one hell of a part in the finale.

Of all of them, I feel Lorne is now the most changed by his experiences. Wes always had an undercurrent of sadness in him, Gunn always seemed to have a sliver of hope, but the fun-loving, just happy to be alive Lorne has been utterly destroyed. Really, Angel just didn't kill Lindsey, he killed Lorne as well. :(
Out of all the finales I've seen this would have to rate as one of the best. I'm sure many will disagree but I'd rather have Angel go out like this rather than *hope* it would go out like this next season. For the record, the 'cliffhanger' didn't bother me in the least. Evil can't be defeated, the fight just keeps on going. And, in my opinion, they win this fight. :)

I loved the ending. It fit perfectly with the overall theme of the show. Giving your all, regardless if you "win or lose", because it's not about obtaining the goal. It's about the attempt to make a difference.

I just loved the ending and I'm going to miss the show.
"I want you Lindsey. (pause) Thinking about rephrasing that."
"Yeah, I think I'd be more comfortable if you did."


I loved that.
Sigh. I wish you were still here so we could console each other. :(

Given Joss' fondness for Shakespeare, I suppose it's rather fitting that Angel murders the love of his life. ;)

Wow. That's pretty much perfect. I hadn't thought of his story in that way. As usual, you are a wise, wise woman. His story *was* important, darn it. I mean, I enjoyed it in the episode, but when you put it together with the context then yeah, wow.
I think I am in the minority in that I was very disappointed with the episode. I see the deaths as pointless. That's the word Miranda used and it sums up the episode for me.

Having said that, I liked all the things in the ep that you did, Asta, but I only liked pieces of the ep, not the whole. It did have wonderful moments but for me they all led up to a pointless suicidal ending.

And I cannot reconcile Wesley's death, even though the scene itself was truly great with Illyria.

Since there has been talk of Angel TV movies, I am able to delude myself into thinking that the others are not dead. (Except for Lindsey and possible Gunn.)

I was hoping for an ending similar to what we got, but one that had more hope, not the assumption that there was no one left standing.

I'm a bit surprised at myself, but I didn't assume for a second that no one was left standing. I reinforced that opinion this morning when it dawned on me that Angel drained the power of the Wolf, Ram, and Hart from Marcus. That blood was stil coursing through him at the end. I believe that helped to save him and the others (not to mention they were a hop, skip, and a jump from the Hyperion - Angel had a reason for meeting there of all places).

As for the deaths, I'm still trying to reconcile myself to Lindsey's. Too many problems with Angel's decision there. I do get Wes'. I'll have to watch again, but I'm starting to think he wanted to die - there was nothing left for him, no joy in life, he might as well go down fighting. As long as I feel he achieved some peace, I don't feel that his death was pointless.
Thank you, as ever, for some really lovely thoughts. You highlight so many things big and small that make me enjoy the episode all over again, in all sorts of new ways. You know we all thought of you when Lindsey died, don't you? I'm glad it didn't temper your enjoyment!

They had a true father/son moment - what Angel always longed for. Could offering to help your kid with his homework be any more normal?

I was so wrapped up in the Angel/Connor scenes I hadn't even thought about that point particularly, but you're so right. I think perhaps that moment meant even more than Connor's awesome appearance in the fight with Hamilton later on. It was such a treat to see, finally, Angel finding out that his love is not always a curse.

Not just having Spike recite poetry but the same poem that brought about his great humiliation and led him to be turned.

Oh, exactly! I love so much that Spike and Angel got to make good moments of their past that had haunted them both.

Is it a coincidence that Angel made their rendezvous point just north of the Hyperion?

Oh! I'd missed that. What a fitting nod to moments past.

Thank you lots for this. I feel like I want to go and re-watch the episode now. :)
You know we all thought of you when Lindsey died, don't you?

::sniff, sniff:: I don't know what it says about me that you all think of me when one of my TV boyfriends dies? ;) From my friends reactions I half expected cards and flowers to start arriving!
The things that I kept thinking about were all the comments made at Flashback... CK and DB saying that Angel goes out on top... and the comments about how Angel stole his hand and then Steph commenting.. I thought of that during the whole "I want you Lindsey bit"... however the ONE thing that is bugging me the most about the comments made at Flashback was when they were talking about shooting a scene from the last episode during episode 17....

"We are in an alley and it is pouring and I have 5 pages of dialog..." Remember that?? Christian was in the scene... originally... way back during episode 17... so am I to think that Angel kills him... or that He lives?? I was waiting for that scene and it never came... so I was a bit confused...

As for Wes and Illyria... I loved it... I am making an icon with "Would you Like me To Lie Now"... god I cried and Cried....
"We are in an alley and it is pouring and I have 5 pages of dialog..." Remember that?? Christian was in the scene... originally... way back during episode 17... so am I to think that Angel kills him... or that He lives?? I was waiting for that scene and it never came... so I was a bit confused...

Well, I like your theory that he lives. ;) I guess I heard things differently because while they did discuss the scene that had 5 pages of dialog, I thought that was seperate (the scene in his office) from the scene in the alley. It would have been damn cool if Lindsey did show up in the alley and we didn't know what side he was about to fight on. :)

I was laughing hysterically during the "I want you Lindsey". I'm dying to know how many takes they had to do to get through that with a straight face.

The Wes/Illyria/Fred scene was perfect. AA blew me away with her performance - I never realized just how talented she was until this season. I'm glad to see you are making icons. :)