Asta 2

Wizard World Report

Via Whedonesque, I found this recap of Joss appearance at Wizard World this past weekend.

Joss talked a bit seeminlgy about every project he's been involved with and could yet be involved with (X-Men 3). Yet, as always, what was most intriguing, for me, was what he has to say in regards to Buffy. In particular, how he intended to bring back Tara. I knew he had wanted to, but, until now, I don't think he's ever talked of what might have been.....

"About three or four episodes from the end of the last season, Buffy was going to be granted one...reality altering wish. The episode would revolve around her struggling with what she could do for herself with that wish. She could bring Angel back to her..."

Whedon then briefly described the episode ending scene. "Buffy would walk into a room and show Willow these shoes that she wanted. Willow would then express disappointment and say 'You had one reality-altering wish and you wished for shoes?' Buffy would then deny that she had done that and leave. Willow would turn around and there would be Tara."

So, what do you all think of this idea? I'm a bit torn. It sounds cool in and of itself, but doesn't it seem to contradict the rules the show established regarding human death under 'natural' circumstances? And given the heavy issues of season 6 and the ramifications being dealt with in season 7, doesn't Buffy simply having to make a wish to bring Tara back seem like a cheat? This all just seems...convenient.

ETA: I came across this more in-depth recap of Joss' comments this morning. It helps to clarify his remarks regarding Tara's return (apparently the writer of the article had the same questions we did :) and there is a rather lame (in my opinion) reason as to why it was Anya who died.
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I'd have liked that idea much better than the Kennedy fiasco, which left a really bad taste in my mouth. Besides, there could've been a wicked twist in that perhaps it was really the First "granting" the wish, really using the opportunity to plant an evil and corporeal minion in their midst as sweet, trusted Tara. Now *that* would've been a cool storyline.
You're an evil woman. I like you. :)

Knowing that bastard Joss as we do, I wouldn't put it past him to give us a Willow/Tara reunion in episode 18 and in episode 21 we find out she's evil...and then Kennedy saves Willow from her. ;)
Given that this is the first we've heard of it, it doesn't seem like it ever got beyond the stage of being a momentary thought in Joss's head--if that. Or maybe he just made it up on the spot at the con; I wouldn't put it past him. If it had ever made it as far as the other writers, I'd think we'd have heard of it before.

I can't imagine it having worked because (a) it would have been a very bad fit with late S7 plotwise, and (b) let's remember that Buffy was so happy about her own resurrection that it makes a lot of sense for her to want to drag someone else out of (presumably) heaven. [/sarcasm] Wasn't the whole deal with the First that Buffy's resurrection was such an unnatural event that it gave it an opening? Which is not to say it wouldn't have been cool to see Tara again, or interesting to give Buffy that kind of choice. But it's probably just as well that it never got beyond the twinkle-in-Joss's-eye stage, if that, because the last thing S7 needed was more confused mythology.
::Hugs to you for making the points I was too tired to make::

The way Joss describes this episode, I see it potentially being lighthearted which, given the tone of the later half of season 7, seems like an odd fit. Heck, I had problams with the context of 'Him' and that was early into the season.

let's remember that Buffy was so happy about her own resurrection that it makes a lot of sense for her to want to drag someone else out of (presumably) heaven. [/sarcasm]

Ooooh, excellent point. Granted, Tara wouldn't be returning to the life of a Slayer, but would Buffy feel she has any right to decide where Tara belongs? And, if Buffy did feel she could, literally, make a life altering decision, what about bringing Joyce back? If she feels she may be facing death again, perhaps she'd want to make sure there was someone to care for Dawn.

I do believe Joss contemplated this scenerio, but, yeah, I'm not so sure he ran it by the other writers. They'd probably have poked holes in his plans as we
have. ;)
I am a thoroughly predictable person, because my first reaction to reading this was to think "Buffy considers making a future with Angel a reality and then rejects it?! Woo-hoo!!"

I can imagine what a wonderful scene that would have been when Willow turned around and saw Tara, but I agree that it would have felt like cheating the "human" death that Tara got, and I have a hard time seeing how it would have fit into the end of S7.
"Buffy considers making a future with Angel a reality and then rejects it?! Woo-hoo!!"

LOL! I hadn't thought of that, but I like it! :D

Aside from the issue of bringing Tara back from heaven (I assume she would be there), how would Dawn react to the fact that Buffy chooses to return Tara instead of Joyce? My other thought is: does Willow still kick Buffy out of her house after this? None of it seems well thought out, but then, not much of S7 was. I agree - it seems like a cheat.


Hee. It seems someone else had the same thoughts we did. ;-) This is from the other recap I just posted a link to:

Given that Buffy's reaction to being ripped from Heaven was negative in the extreme, this seems surprising. As does the idea that she would bring back Willow's lover, rather than her and Dawn's mother Joyce, who died of a brain tumour in the fifth season. However, Whedon notes that the impetus for the storyline would also show Buffy being self-less, giving to Willow, rather than for her own gain.

As I said to Skylee above, I still have a tough time with this reasoning. By going to such extremes to make Buffy look selfless, it seems an effort to 'fix' on the part of ME what some fans saw as Buffy's selfish and destructive behavior up to this point.

And I thought you might appreciate this bit about Sarah....

Some things hit, some things don't. When they don't, you find that out. There have been times when [Sarah] wasn't fully on board with what I was doing. Season six, we went to the dark place. And at some point, she went to Marti Noxon and said 'I'm starting to feel uncomfortable. I'm starting to feel that Buffy has lost control so much that I am losing her. And that doesn't feel like the statement we should be making.' And I had the same exact same conversation with Marti on the same day, not knowing that Sarah had said that. The fact is, we were so in tune with what we were doing with that character most of time it was almost psychic. Scary.

So, what was the point in which Buffy tried to reclaim control? AYW? NA? After the events of SR? By saying that he and Sarah were on the same page, is he pointing the blame at Marti for things becoming so dark and off putting to some fans? And, as the guy with the ultimate control, why didn't he see it happening sooner?

Thanks for the link, Mary. I'm inclined to think that the Tara scenario was a twinkle in Joss' eye that was never discussed with the writers, because none of them have ever mentioned it that I know. But it does harken back to something Joss said in an interview soon after the show ended, that he had this wonderful storyline for Tara coming back that didn't happen because Amber did not want to do it. It could be something he thought of doing and shelved because it could a)cause more confusion, and b)Amber was not available.

As for his lame excuse for killing Anya - I just think he didn't want to say that Emma was no longer interested in playing the character or working for FOX any longer. So, killing her character was an easier decision to make.
Of course, we also need to take into consideration what Amber has said about all this. That she was approached to come back as evil - one of the forms the First took and felt that would be a disservice to Tara and her fans. Honestly, the more interviews I see pertaining to season 7 and the various contradictions included within them, I believe that that final season, other than the finale, was not planned out at all.
Honestly? I think this is an instance of Joss ™ crap. I don’t believe for a second he seriously considered to bring Tara back, especially in this manner. First of all, I read somewhere before of a Joss telling a different way to bring Tara back, and how everyone (writers) loved it, and cried from love and joy, and then Amber didn’t want to do it.
This idea (I read the re-cap already) first, doesn’t fit with the end of s7. Where there is a place for it? Plot-wise or emotional development-wise? I don’t see it. But it’s fine, I am not Joss. More important, and it was noted already, it would be wrong. I don’t believe for a second, that Buffy, having gone through all darkness post-resurrection, knowing first-hand what it means, would do it to Tara. Especially to Tara, but to any of people. And do it for Willow to prove selflessness? Again, being selfless, she would think of Tara first, not of Willow here. Well, I can bring more reasons, but it won’t be anything new.

About Anya’s death. I love Anya dearly, but there were too many reasons for her to die – both meta and her story –related. (and I do believe, she had her own story, and one day I’ll come around to finish writing about it) But in short, her story is about being a human, what does it mean, how it goes, and how it ends. And being a human ends the same – with death. Earlier or later, one way or another, always sudden.
Again, being selfless, she would think of Tara first, not of Willow here.

Good point. My take on all this is that Joss was hoping to get Amber back at some point in the final season. Not knowing when it would happen, he kept coming up with ways to insert her into the storyline. I think this was just one of the ways to do it. The problem is, it would have been so late into the season at that point, it wouldn't have felt organic with everything else that as going on. On the flipside, maybe Tara would have prevented Willow and the others from booting Buffy out of her own house. :p

I have no problem with Anya's death and how it played out (same with Wes on 'Angel'). It's just that I like your reasoning better than Joss'. 'I couldn't kill anyone in the core group' is not the explaination I want for a character's death. It actually seems unfair to Anya.

I agree the reason for killing Anya was lame.

I also think the Tara idea must have been in Josh's brain. It doesn't sound fully thought out. More like he had this really cool idea, and he'd fit it in somewhwere. It sounds like it was pretty early in the season he came up with this idea, then had to make adjustments when Amber didn't come on board. I wonder if Amber had agreed to come back, how much the season might have changed? I ahve to say all things considered, I ws happy with it as it was.
I've come to the conclusion that the show was flying by the seat of it's pants in season 7. I think every time Joss thought Amber might be willing or able to come back he came up with an idea as to how to insert her into the series. Yet, could he insert her into the plot? In the last 3 or 4 episodes, I think not.
I really fail to see how killing Anya was "funny". Joss can be so utterly insulting and lame sometimes.

And I agree with everything people have been saying about S7. Well, all the negative stuff, anyway. ;)
And I agree with everything people have been saying about S7. Well, all the negative stuff, anyway. ;)

Says the girl who quit watching.....;p